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Adrian Setter
BHPC Member
Joined: 04 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1606
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Topic: Time-trial events Posted: 18 July 2005 at 1:10pm |
Here are the results of the one-lap time-trial "demonstration event"* from Preston (speeds are based on a lap being 1.58km):
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Min |
Sec |
km/h |
mph |
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Ian Chattington |
1 |
55.06 |
49.44 |
30.72 |
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Adrian Setter |
2 |
09.82 |
43.81 |
27.23 |
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Rob Hague |
2 |
18.29 |
41.13 |
25.56 |
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Claire King |
2 |
24.95 |
39.24 |
24.38 |
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Paul London |
2 |
25.09 |
39.20 |
24.36 |
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Paul Lowing |
2 |
35.98 |
36.47 |
22.66 |
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Carolyn Lowing |
2 |
48.07 |
33.84 |
21.03 |
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Anne Coulson |
2 |
50.76 |
33.31 |
20.70 |
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Angela Andrews |
3 |
03.48 |
31.00 |
19.26 |
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Geoff Marshall |
3 |
08.02 |
30.25 |
18.80 |
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gNick Green |
16 |
08.00 |
5.88 |
3.65 |
* In the sense that the Olympics have demonstration events to see if they're worth including for real. Consensus among the organisators is that the experiment worked well enough to make it worth trying for real next year (as a second points event following a conventional race on the same day). Some lessons learned from the experiment:
a) Streamliners need to be run separately, and with a slightly different procedure (it's not reasonable to ask their pilots to sit in the machines, quietly cooking in the sun whilst waiting to start). Can someone tell us how long a warning hurtling types will need in order to be in their machines and on the start line: one minute? Two?
b) Riders should be set off according to their ranking by speed (this will be easier when it's a points event and we can be pretty sure that all signed-on riders will be competing).
c) With a full field of maybe 40 riders, we'll have to have more than one on the track at once. We need to think-through fully the drill for starting riders off, for riders coming over the finish line and for riders slowing down and leaving the track. This may mean running the time-trial at Lancaster rather than Preston.
d) Someone suggested a rolling - rather than standing - start. In summary, we think this is just too difficult to make work. Yes, a standing start does make it a bit of a test of ability to accelerate, but is there something wrong with having one race a year that does? It might be worth making the distance a longer; three laps at Lancaster would make it into the classic 4km distance (how many of us can beat Boardman's record ?)
e) To help keep riders apart on the track, we could start people off at flexible intervals rather than at one minute (so for riders who lap in about 2 minutes, we might start them off at intervals of 1'30" rather than a minute).
Any comments?
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Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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Fiona G
BHPC Member
Joined: 28 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 145
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Posted: 18 July 2005 at 6:51pm |
Hi Adrian
Thanks again for your organisation at the weekend. Good racing and fun socialising - couldn't have been better.
As to time trials - I'm all for having different events. A one lap sprint gives unfaired bikes a chance against streamliners but I think a 4 km event might justify it being a full points event better. My one concern is that if someone cannot make that weekend then they are missing 3 points events, which might be seen as a bit unfair. With the number of events increasing, I have suggested in the past that we be allowed to drop 4 events, rather than 3, which would make it a bit fairer.
Another incentive to compete in the TT would be that you loose, say, 10% of your points from the main race if you don't participate in the TT.
Geoff
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Guests
Guest
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Posted: 18 July 2005 at 9:50pm |
Fiona G wrote:
Another incentive to compete in the TT would be
that you loose, say, 10% of your points from the main race if you don't
participate in the TT.
Geoff |
Unfortunately, I was not able to stay for the TT due to an extremely
hot old black labrador, and to tell the truth, was not feeling too
great myself in the heat after the race. I would like to have extra
points TT events, but would not want to lose 10% of those that I
sweated out round Preston - I think that this would be a little
harsh  . I think the dropping of another event's points would make more sense.
Again, thanks for two great days racing, organising folks ! Now that I
know where my local circuit is and what it's like (Preston !), I think
I shall be training there more often ....
Edited by rob gillions
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gNick
BHPC Member
Joined: 22 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
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Posted: 18 July 2005 at 9:57pm |
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Another alternative would be for the weekend to be made up as a 4 stage
event with the total points for say 2 events divided between the
stages. To build the incentive to stay on the points for each
event could be a fifth of the total (assuming 4 stages) and the
remaining fifth on overall position. Bonuses for winning heats might be
a nice extra. We could also run drags in the points scheme of things to
give the unfaired an unfair advantage (thinks - I appear to be digging
a pit for myself here)
If we run a more weekend events this could make the racing a lot more
interesting with the added advantage that if you have a bad race you
don't go quite so ar back in the overall scheme of things.
I think a rolling start would be a bit much - yes it would reduce the
chance of me locking the brake on but much more hassle than a normal
start. If you have 30 riders starting you want to run them off at 30s
or 1min intervals, you haven't got the spare time to individually time
everyone. Maybe a start ramp like what they use on the tour?
I was planning on dropping 4 races this year so Castle Combe II could
be included in the points events. The aim being to get a reasonable
number of people to come because it is possibly the best chance we have
this year of getting a some good publicity.
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gNick
"I'm afraid it's definite, Mrs Banker - your son has bicycles"
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Adrian Setter
BHPC Member
Joined: 04 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1606
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Posted: 19 July 2005 at 12:39pm |
I think we were assuming that we would follow Thee Keeper Ov Thee Records' customary procedure for dealing with more than one points-scoring race on the same day, i.e. the whole day's racing would count as one "event", with the two races contributing to a single overall score for the event. See this year's Newport results, for example.
I don't think a TT as short as a lap ought to get equal weighting with a 40-minute race (Dave, how difficult is it to do a 2/3 to 1/3 or a 3/4 to 1/4 split of points across races rather than the usual half-and-half?). Something like 4km might justify equal weighting.
This way, the weekend would constitute two events, as currently.
Geoff - We've been dropping our worst 4 results since 2003! 8 from 12 seems about right to me - allows people to have a holiday (or to do maniac stuff like RAAM) and to have one or two off days/mechanicals but still requiring regular attendance for a good championship position.
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Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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legs_larry
BHPC Member
Joined: 09 March 2005
Location: London Town Devine
Status: Offline
Points: 1554
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Posted: 19 July 2005 at 12:58pm |
Adrian Setter wrote:
(Dave, how difficult is it to do a 2/3 to 1/3 or a 3/4 to 1/4 split of points across races rather than the usual half-and-half?). |
Should be pretty easy - just a minor change on the Babbage-Engine...
Adrian Setter wrote:
Geoff - We've been dropping our worst 4 results since 2003! 8 from 12 seems about right to me - allows people to have a holiday (or to do maniac stuff like RAAM) and to have one or two off days/mechanicals but still requiring regular attendance for a good championship position. |
Not to mention Paul London's suggestion of the Mystery Virus Card...
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====================
a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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gNick
BHPC Member
Joined: 22 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
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Posted: 19 July 2005 at 1:23pm |
legs_larry wrote:
Not to mention Paul London's suggestion of the Mystery Virus Card...
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And don't forget the Joker (in the style of It's a Knockout) - mind this shouldn't be available to the likes of Chatto, Derrick Neil, Adrianne etc.
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gNick
"I'm afraid it's definite, Mrs Banker - your son has bicycles"
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Fiona G
BHPC Member
Joined: 28 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 145
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Posted: 19 July 2005 at 1:39pm |
Well, no one told me! 
Perhaps I meant 5...
Taxi!
Geoff
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Adrian Setter
BHPC Member
Joined: 04 March 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1606
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Posted: 21 July 2005 at 2:03pm |
gNick wrote:
Another alternative would be for the weekend to be made up as a 4 stage event with the total points for say 2 events divided between the stages. To build the incentive to stay on the points for each event could be a fifth of the total (assuming 4 stages) and the remaining fifth on overall position. |
I awoke last night from a dream (nightmare, more like) of riding in Le Tour and finally understanding, slow on the uptake as I am, what gNick was on about.
I think it would be rather fun to list a "GC" when we have a weekend event. I wouldn't want unfairly to penalise people who can't make that weekend, or one day of it, so perhaps it would be best to count the weekend as two one-day events (maybe each with two races) in the traditional way for Championship purposes and have a GC (and green-jersey-stylee points?) competition just for fun and prestige.
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Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer
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gNick
BHPC Member
Joined: 22 February 2005
Status: Offline
Points: 1977
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Posted: 21 July 2005 at 3:33pm |
Call it the British Championship weekend so the GC would be relevant.
Points jerseys don't really work with split fields - how about a Pints jersey - Legs and I should be in reasonable competition for that! Maybe a Toys Out of Pram prize for whoever gets most over-excited about something.
There might be a good argument in having more weekend events but fewer overall events. So for starters we could have 2 weekend events but only 10 weekends upon which there is an event. Ideas?
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gNick
"I'm afraid it's definite, Mrs Banker - your son has bicycles"
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