Overtaking and being lapped in races
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URL: https://forum.bhpc.org.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=3986
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Topic: Overtaking and being lapped in races
Posted By: Yowie
Subject: Overtaking and being lapped in races
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 1:03pm
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After the challenges of racing around Preston circuit which is not wide and has corners, I thought I'd raise a few discussion points... If I am being lapped at a complex or ambiguous part of the circuit, I usually expect to hear a shout from behind where overtaking may be challenging for the faster rider. This is to help everyone concerned:- "Right" or "On the right" (for those with more breath to spare) tells the slower rider that the slower rider is being overtaken on their right
(slow rider on the LEFT, fast rider on the RIGHT)
"Left" or "On the left" (for those with more breath to spare) tells the slower rider that the slower rider is being overtaken on their left
(slow rider on the RIGHT, fast rider on the LEFT)
The slower rider(s) may (if convenient and safe etc.) make more room for the faster rider(s) to come through. If it is not safe or convenient, I would expect the slower rider to stick to their line. On no account should any rider(s) (fast or slow) have to take unnecessary chances. No rider should automatically be taking slower lines through corners. I don't think any rider has automatic priority over any other, no matter how much the speed differential. Bunches of riders should, hopefully all move in the same direction. The watchwords should be care, observation and courtesy. <discuss> |
Replies:
Posted By: Adrian Setter
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 1:37pm
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Generally I agree with that, also as discussed http://www.bhpc.org.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3079&PN=11 - here and hereabouts .
Personally, I'm cautious about shouting warnings to riders I'm about to pass; all too often the reaction is not the one you'd hoped for. If I can pass safely without a shout, that's what I do. If a shout would be necessary, I usually wait, unless that's going to lose me the race. It's worth bearing in mind that not all riders in our races necessarily have perfect hearing.
The point above all others is that the onus is on the overtaking rider to do so safely. ------------- Challenge Hurricane - MicWic Delta (Front half) - Burrows Ratracer |
Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 2:02pm
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Common sense is what it's all about really... Generally speaking it shouild be the responsibility of the faster rider to overtake safely. The slower rider having a mirror will usually help. Whenever I see riders coming up to lap me (which is very often...) I usually give way to them when I can, but even those of us that are very slow may well be having our own little battle with somebody almost as slow and concentrating on that can sometimes get in the way of clear thinking...
 Calling out is useful as long as everybody (especially the slower riders) knows what the calls mean and what they are expected to do...
There is a lot of calling in pedal car races... Before each race there is a driver's briefing where everything is explained. However at the start of the recent 24 hour race some of the young drivers were moving to their right when they heard a shout of "On your right" which is bad enough on 4 wheels and would be very unfortunate on two!...
After the first 5 or 6 hours most of them had got the hang of it...
A brief er... briefing before the race (especially when first-timers are taking part) may well be useful...
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Posted By: tosgh
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 5:30pm
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I've always kept quiet on this subject but on this occassion I will put in my half penny worth. I spend a lot of my time during the race looking in my mirror checking what is going on behind me especially when approaching corners. Occasionally I get caught by surprise by someone coming past on my blind side. What annoys me somewhat is the way some riders come past and feel the need to start cutting in before they are even past me. Riding a recumbent with a front fairing means that when another rider comes across the front of me really close I do not no how close their back wheel is to contacting with my fairing and on a few occasions I have been obliged to apply the brakes. All I ask is that the rider makes sure they are fully clear of the rider they are overtaking before taking the line in front. ------------- weight is everything |
Posted By: Yanto63
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 7:59pm
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As one the deaf folks referred to (can only hear wind noise when racing) i try to use my mirror, this i think i did well over the past weekend, but i have been caught out by Slash twice! However, overtaking is just like on the road, the overtaker is responsible!
tosgh, i fully back you up on the cutting up theme, this, especially having done it myself in the first season i rode. The overtaker carries on being responsible for their actions even when past the rider being overtaken. Twice i was cut up at Lancaster by the same person (he knows who he is) the second time i had to apply brakes so hard i locked up so that his back wheel did not hit me as he was pulling in. In future i will not do that !!! by the way bikes fall over easier than trikes when a collision occurs! ------------- Ian |
Posted By: blogwat
Date Posted: 30 July 2010 at 8:49pm
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Hi Folks
even when I was racing I was not going fast enough to have wind rushing past me and it would be difficult to hear over my heavy breathing  ------------- when your up to your waist in aligators they forget to tell you you've got to clear the swamp |
Posted By: Neil F
Date Posted: 01 August 2010 at 5:21pm
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It is, and as far as I am aware always has been, the responsibility of the faster rider to avoid the slower one. However, everyone needs to be aware of the issues involved. One thing to note is that a 10mph overtaking speed equates to 15 feet (or 2.5 bike lengths) per second. Lets face it Slash and Lee can be that much quicker that the fast unfaired and Mike and Adrian can be that much quicker than the slower fast riders. So gaps can close quickly. One of the issues at Preston (which I think is a great track) is that riders, particularly early in the race, were "holding their line", unfortunately for the overtaking riders this meant moving from the outside edge to the apex and out to the edge of the track again. This means that the overtaking rider can find themselves heading for a rapidly closing gap. If a single rider is being overtaken then this is a minor issue, however, if it is a 4 bike train then the overtaking rider can find themselves having to slot into the middle of the train. This issue becomes a real problem with trains passing trains and when the passing rider(s) is trying to build or close a gap. So what's the solution? Basically, riders need to be more aware of what is going on around, and especially behind them. Slower riders should leave clear space at one side of the track to allow fasters riders through or at least check that before they close a door that there is no one trying to come through it! This was a problem at the start of Preston when the fast unfaired train IMHO got in Lee and Slash's way, so this is an issue that ALL racers need to think about. The alternative to thinking while racing is either only doing time trials on enpty tracks or racing at tracks that are so wide that passing is not an issue. Neither of which I think would be terribly popular. |
Posted By: KeithD
Date Posted: 01 August 2010 at 8:41pm
+1 As for trains overtaking trains, if there isn't a enough room for the whole overtaking train to pass, this train should split. This happened near the start of Preston when I was behind Andrew and Neil - from memory, there was enough space for these two riders to overtake, but the gap was closing, and there wasn't room for a third rider (me) to pass, so I eased off until there was a safe point to overtake. It took about 10 minutes of hard riding to catch up with them, but I'm happy I did this rather than 'chanced it'. In this case, safety ended up making the overtaking a tactical move not in my favour. But they were doing more of the work, so it's only fair - there's got to be some incentive to be at the front of a train! The onus should be the overtaker to apply the brakes if an overtaking maneuver looks like it will not work, rather than the overtakee to avoid an accident. |
Adrian Setter wrote: