Making a plug

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Hi all, 
Been reading the posts on here for a while, but thought I'd join and see if I can get some advise in for the bargain?

I've been designing a Velomobile for a while now and am getting dangerously close to actually having to start making the body plug.  I've read/heard of people making plugs out of all sorts of materials, foam, plaster, wood etc, but not sure which way to go with this.  I'm planning on making a male plug then taking female mould tools off it from which to create the finished article.  I would like it to be fairly robust so I can take a couple of moulds off it and I'd like it to be easy to modify in case I want to change the design.  Plaster sounds easy, but will weigh a tonne (quite literally), though I think I could make up a wooden frame and then lay say 20 - 50 mm of plaster on the outside to shape.  Plaster is also seriously cheap comared to other methods.

Or there's foam.  I've made an 8th scale model of my design in blue closed-cell foam, but this stuff seems ridiculously expensive for what it is and to make the full size velomobile I'm going to need a lot of sheets even if I make the mold hollow.  Does anyone here know of a cheap supplier of closed cell insulation foam in the UK?  I've read a load of stuff on the Recumbernts.com website, but most, if not all of that sems to be based in the states where pink foam seems to be the thing, and seems to be a lot cheaper than over here.

Or have I missed any other options?

Any advise greatly recieved.

Cheers

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Spitty6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Visitor (new) Joined: 19 January 2016 Location: Dursley Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote Spitty6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Making a plug Posted: 19 January 2016 at 2:56pm
	Hi all, Been reading the posts on here for a while, but thought I'd join and see if I can get some advise in for the bargain? I've been designing a Velomobile for a while now and am getting dangerously close to actually having to start making the body plug. I've read/heard of people making plugs out of all sorts of materials, foam, plaster, wood etc, but not sure which way to go with this. I'm planning on making a male plug then taking female mould tools off it from which to create the finished article. I would like it to be fairly robust so I can take a couple of moulds off it and I'd like it to be easy to modify in case I want to change the design. Plaster sounds easy, but will weigh a tonne (quite literally), though I think I could make up a wooden frame and then lay say 20 - 50 mm of plaster on the outside to shape. Plaster is also seriously cheap comared to other methods. Or there's foam. I've made an 8th scale model of my design in blue closed-cell foam, but this stuff seems ridiculously expensive for what it is and to make the full size velomobile I'm going to need a lot of sheets even if I make the mold hollow. Does anyone here know of a cheap supplier of closed cell insulation foam in the UK? I've read a load of stuff on the Recumbernts.com website, but most, if not all of that sems to be based in the states where pink foam seems to be the thing, and seems to be a lot cheaper than over here. Or have I missed any other options? Any advise greatly recieved. Cheers

atlas_shrugged Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List BHPC Member Joined: 03 November 2014 Location: Cambs Status: Offline Points: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote atlas_shrugged Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 11:31am
	Hi Spitty6 The book "So You Want To Build An HPV" is very helpful and has advice on what you are wanting to do. This book is available from the BHPC Shop. I have a velomobile but no experience yet of building one. More power to your elbow. Regards Brian.

Spitty6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Visitor (new) Joined: 19 January 2016 Location: Dursley Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote Spitty6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 11:41am
	Hi Brian, Thanks for the recommendation. I have a copy of that and have read it, very good read, but I'm still not sure which way to go with the plug. And if the are any good suppliers of foam anywhere that don't want payment'in body parts' (an arm and a leg!) Which velomobile do you have? Do you use it on the road or just for racing? Cheers Pete

AlanGoodman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Club Chairman Joined: 04 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8036	Post Options Post Reply Quote AlanGoodman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 2:25pm
	I have a Quest XS Pete - Only used on the road. It's very quick. I'm not.


Spitty6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Visitor (new) Joined: 19 January 2016 Location: Dursley Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote Spitty6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 3:15pm
	I think I've seen a couple of youtube videos of your Quest Alan. I was watchign one of your videos thinking I recognize these roads... then I realised that I grew up not far from you. Have you ever braved the magic round-about in the Quest? What sort of cruise speed can you hold in it on relatively flat roads? The speed thing and the weather protection is what appeals to me about the velomobile. I commute by bike most days, approx 18 miles each way to work in North Bristol. I love cycling, but I think a velo would make it much more enjoyable in bad weather and should be quicker too. I've researched all the velomobiles that are out there and particularly like the look of the Milan, WAW and the LeMan, but they are all rather pricy and there are various features of each that I don't like. I'm a Design Engineer by trade, so can't help wanting to design one that I like the look of and includes all the features I'd like in a Velomobile. Hence the question about the mould tooling. Cheers Pete

AlanGoodman Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Admin Group Club Chairman Joined: 04 March 2005 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 8036	Post Options Post Reply Quote AlanGoodman Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 4:10pm
	You'll see the Magic Roundabout at about 50 seconds into this clip... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VlhA-PLD0ek I live just round the corner from it so I use it all the time on various bikes. It's fine really. The Quest will happily sit at 25MPH on the flat with very little effort once it gets rolling. With not a huge amount of effort or a slight downhill and you'll be over 30... Down a big hill it is absolutely bonkers. The limit set by my lack of bottle is always the deciding factor... Downsides are that it's hard work up hill and it's no good if you just want a peaceful ride without people asking you about it and taking pictures. I've actually had people follow me all the way home just to ask about it which is a bit spooky. It's also fairly fragile so I have to be careful where I leave it. ie nowhere around here really!!


graydog Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List BHPC Member Joined: 16 January 2006 Location: Wales Status: Offline Points: 1481	Post Options Post Reply Quote graydog Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 9:50pm
	The last one we use used yellow 100 mm roof insulation from Travis perking. 200quid. Also look at Kingsbury's work on this. The sections were cnc routed to 10mm steps The the sections pined with a set of rods and sanded. These where covered with two skins of carbon. This was sanded and filled. Skins were taken directly off these. We will be doing this all again in the next few months. an new 3mx1.2mx1m router is being made atm. But what we are working on is 4,7m 1,7m 1,3m so again we have to glue sections together. But not so much this time in layers. Top its: Buy a big tent you dont mind throwing away, Do all your Sanding in there. Get a top re breather. Don't use your partners vacuum clearer !!!!!

GeoffBird Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List BHPC Member Joined: 20 September 2005 Status: Offline Points: 2396	Post Options Post Reply Quote GeoffBird Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 20 January 2016 at 10:51pm
	Hi Pete, I can send you my account of building a plug for my streamliner at the end of the last century if you PM me your email. I've made a lot of plugs in my time. Foam skinned with grp (as Graham describes) is the quickest but working with foam (not to mention composites) is very messy. All the materials you will need tend to be a bit pricy but worth it in terms of quality of the finished item and time saved. I'd still allow at least 200 hours to make the plug though. Nowadays, I get plugs CNC machined, cos I'm lazy, but this route is very expensive. Have you seen Friend Wood's wooden velo and the wooden Quest a dutch guy built? No moulds required, but quite a bit of careful work I would think. Or there is Coroplast - search Velomobiles - Coroplast' on Facebook.
	Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed

atlas_shrugged Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List BHPC Member Joined: 03 November 2014 Location: Cambs Status: Offline Points: 1025	Post Options Post Reply Quote atlas_shrugged Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 January 2016 at 11:18am
	Hi Pete I have an Evo Ks. This is quick in a straight line but not so quick in corners (probably because of geriatric rider). I use it on the track and also on the road. Regards Brian.

Spitty6 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Visitor (new) Joined: 19 January 2016 Location: Dursley Status: Offline Points: 7	Post Options Post Reply Quote Spitty6 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 21 January 2016 at 12:51pm
	Thanks all for your inputs. Facinating stuff. Graydog, thanks for mentioning Travis Perkins - hadn't thought of going to them. For some reason when I was searching for foam on Google it wasn't coming up with them. They seem to be a fair chunk cheaper than the same stuff from the likes of Wickes and B&Q. I'll have to section up my models and see what the minimum number of sheets I can get away with is. GeoffBird, Thanks for the links via email. I haven't been able to open them properly but I was trying to do it on my mobile - I'll have another go when I'm home tonight. I have seen Friend Wood's wooden velomobile, it looks amazing, in fact it's one of the first I saw which has given me the inspiration for this project. I've also seen the strip-planked Quest - a work of art for sure, though probably weighs a fair bit I'd have thought. I also like the ethos behind the Mosquito Velomobile, though the body shape leave's a little to be desired in my book. I'll have to see if I can work out how to post photo's on here and I may share a picture or two of my designs....! While I'm mainly doing this to make one velomobile for me to use on my commute and also for fun, I'm trying to keep an eye on the possibilies of churning out a 'production' run if it works and is well recieved. I already have a number of keen colleagues at work that have expressed an interest. We'll just have to see how it goes.....!! Edited by Spitty6 - 21 January 2016 at 1:23pm