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Transponder Tags on Carbon Fibre

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RoyMacdonald View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 September 2020 at 8:38am
Does anyone know how much isolation from carbon fiber our transponder tags need?  Do you think 1mm ABS sheet will be enough isolation from the carbon fiber?
All the best.
Roy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlanGoodman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2020 at 8:48am
I think there are some foam strips around somewhere but Kim or Andrew are best to answer that - looking forward to seeing you and your new machine on track!! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atlas_shrugged Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 September 2020 at 9:06am
I put my tags on my helmet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote richforrest Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 7:33am
Originally posted by atlas_shrugged atlas_shrugged wrote:

I put my tags on my helmet.


Does that not chafe a bit!! Shocked





(Sorry, had to be said LOL )
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RoyMacdonald View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoyMacdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 9:40am
Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

I think there are some foam strips around somewhere but Kim or Andrew are best to answer that - looking forward to seeing you and your new machine on track!! 

Already asked Kim but she did not know for sure. I'm inclined to think they will be OK, because when I mount the transponders on my ABS race numbers on my ICE trike the range the clubs sensors can pick the tags up is ridiculous. I left the trike behind the steel railings and well behind the sensors at the entrance to the changing rooms at Hillingdon and the sensors still picked up my tags. In fact while I was changing Chris came in and said I had won the fast race!Shocked  I'm wondering if ABS boosts the efficiency of the tags somehow. 

All the best
Roy 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote HeatherF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 11:12am
Foam strips do exist and should be in the box with the kit which I think Neil Hood has. We have more and Andrew can bring them to Gravesend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Kim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 11:18am
ABS, foam, cardboard, wood, etc. is effectively invisible at 860MHz.  The question is how close to a conductive surface the tag can be positioned without significant de-tuning of its antenna.

There is adhesive foam in the box of timing kit.  Its thickness is about 5mm.  If this is known to work for applying a tag to a conductive surface, then there's your answer.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoyMacdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 11:45am
Originally posted by Kim Kim wrote:

ABS, foam, cardboard, wood, etc. is effectively invisible at 860MHz.  The question is how close to a conductive surface the tag can be positioned without significant de-tuning of its antenna.

There is adhesive foam in the box of timing kit.  Its thickness is about 5mm.  If this is known to work for applying a tag to a conductive surface, then there's your answer.

Hi Kim
I take it the tag/reader operate at 860Mhz then? I would like to use 1 mm if possible because that will sit inside the front wheel access hole on the carbon fiber cover nicely. I could even replace the carbon fiber covers with ABS but that would add weight and Daniel worked so hard to make it the lightest Velomobile in the UK.
Roy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote atlas_shrugged Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 2:43pm
Roy
It is not quite clear what you mean by 'inside' the access cover. It sounds like the carbon fibre access cover is going to cover (obscure) the path to the track antenna from the tag. If this is the case the RF signal may be attenuated and the transponder may not work.
 
Why not mount the tags on your helmet? Even if you have to use a foam spacer if your helmet is carbon fibre. The tags work OK on my helmet. Later if you use a race hood you can mount the tags on the side of the hood visor. The tags will have the highest chance of working if they have line-of-sight with the track antennas.
 
 


Edited by atlas_shrugged - 08 September 2020 at 2:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RoyMacdonald Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 September 2020 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by atlas_shrugged atlas_shrugged wrote:

Roy
It is not quite clear what you mean by 'inside' the access cover. It sounds like the carbon fibre access cover is going to cover (obscure) the path to the track antenna from the tag. If this is the case the RF signal may be attenuated and the transponder may not work.
 
Why not mount the tags on your helmet? Even if you have to use a foam spacer if your helmet is carbon fibre. The tags work OK on my helmet. Later if you use a race hood you can mount the tags on the side of the hood visor. The tags will have the highest chance of working if they have line-of-sight with the track antennas.
 
 

Hi Brian.

It isn't clear is it?  inside the front wheel recess on the outside of the removable carbon fiber cover which fits into the recess. My helmets have always been damaged by the glue on the tag. Might just be a Giro thing though. I may fit the tag on the visor if all else fails. I thought that the access panels would be the best place to avoid disrupting the airflow.

Can I bring your map to the AGM? I don't have a suitable box to post it in? I will still send your tie by post though.

All the best.
Roy
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