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2021 Rounds 10&11: Gravesend, Sat-Sun 25-26 Sept

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URL: http://forum.bhpc.org.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=7284
Printed Date: 08 December 2021 at 6:03pm
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Topic: 2021 Rounds 10&11: Gravesend, Sat-Sun 25-26 Sept
Posted By: Andrew S
Subject: 2021 Rounds 10&11: Gravesend, Sat-Sun 25-26 Sept
Date Posted: 05 September 2021 at 10:41am
The next BHPC event is another weekender - Saturday 25th and Sunday 26th September at https://goo.gl/maps/3sRMLFkVG6KYt5sF9" rel="nofollow - Gravesend Cyclopark in Kent.

Registration opens for members on Thursday 9th September at 10:00am and a week later (Thursday 16th) for non-members if there are still places left. Registration closes at 12:00 noon on the Thursday before the race (23rd September).

https://shop.bhpc.org.uk/race-signon" rel="nofollow - BHPC Shop: Race Sign-on



Replies:
Posted By: RoyMacdonald
Date Posted: 08 September 2021 at 11:14am
Save me a place as I'm going to be at a wedding until the 11th.< id="BFI_" style="width: 1px; height: 1px; display: none;">




Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 10:26am
Registration for BHPC members is now http://https://shop.bhpc.org.uk/gravesend-2021-saturday-26th-sunday-27th-september-members" rel="nofollow - OPEN .

As is the current custom numbers are limited to 60 riders per day (59 after Roy's reserved place).


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 09 September 2021 at 2:30pm
Entered - looking forward to it, mostly 'cause I haven't been to that track before and it sounds like a good 'un

FYI Andrew's link above only works if you're already logged in to the shop


Posted By: RoyMacdonald
Date Posted: 12 September 2021 at 2:23pm
Entered. Thanks for reserving a place for me AndrewThumbs Up< id="BFI_" style="width: 1px; height: 1px; display: none;">



Posted By: HeatherF
Date Posted: 19 September 2021 at 3:49pm
This is the provisional timetable for the racing at Gravesend, 25th and 26th September. Note that all times are approximate and anything can change dependent on the weather, the number of racers etc.

Saturday 25th September (we have the track from 12 noon to 5pm)

   12 noon – register that you are there and warm up

   1.00pm – 0.24 mile oval track. 2 x 20 or 3 x 15 minute races dependent on number of racers

   2.45pm – 0.84 mile lower track. 2 x 45 minute plus one lap races split into slower and faster racers.

   5.00 pm - leave the track

 Sunday 26th September (we have the track from 10am to 3pm)

   10am – register that you are there and warm up

   11am – 0.84 mile lower track. 1 lap time trial

   12.30pm – approx. 1 mile combined oval and lower track. 90 minutes plus one lap, all racers together

   3.00pm – leave the track

Comments or questions to Heather (Organiser for Gravesend)



Posted By: flyinerin
Date Posted: 21 September 2021 at 11:08am
Hi Lee, if you see this message and you still have my headrest, I'll be at gravesend on Sunday and would love to be reunited with it. My neck has had a long summer without a headrest cushion.


Posted By: HeatherF
Date Posted: 22 September 2021 at 7:36pm
If anyone is able to help with the organisation at Gravesend it would be much appreciated. This basically means flag waving and/or bell ringing on both days.

On Sunday we need some help with the time trial. Also for the 90 minute race on Sunday when all racers will be racing together we will be relying on non-racing friends and relatives.

On either day just come and offer your services at the timing tent.

Many thanks


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 11:33am
Do either of the circuits we're racing on use the tight hairpin at the Eastern end of the track - circled in red below? I think that's too tight for 77.
Thanks
Russ




Posted By: farwer
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 11:40am
I think that is the upper track, which we are not going to use.


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 11:51am
Correct - we’re not using that bit… :)

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Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 11:58am
Much appreciated


Posted By: AndyForey
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 12:11pm
I missed the deadline by a few minutes (left my glasses in the shed when I got back it was closed !). Are there any places left? if so could I have one, Andy Forey 73


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 1:20pm
Does anybody happen to have a generator they could bring along?

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Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

Does anybody happen to have a generator they could bring along?
As Alan said, we urgently need a generator to run the timing system at Gravesend, both days. There is no power source near the bottom end of the circuit where we have our start/finish so without a generator we are unable to run the electronic timing system


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 5:11pm
Colin Rose has said on Facebook he has one - he’s just checking that it works.

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Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

Do either of the circuits we're racing on use the tight hairpin at the Eastern end of the track - circled in red below?


The circuits we're using are at the other end of the site (left in your pic), specifically the oval ('Circuit D' on https://www.cyclopark.com/ride/track-timetable/" rel="nofollow - this plan ) and the oval+loop (Circuits D&F). We decided last year that we couldn't use Circuit F on its own because of the tight hairpin at the upper end.


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 23 September 2021 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by AndyForey AndyForey wrote:

I missed the deadline by a few minutes (left my glasses in the shed when I got back it was closed !). Are there any places left? if so could I have one, Andy Forey 73
Andy - Email sent


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 25 September 2021 at 9:44pm
The results of today's races at Gravesend are now available on the BHPC website:
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/10gravesend" rel="nofollow - www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/10gravesend



Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 25 September 2021 at 9:48pm
Well done Andrew!

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Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 25 September 2021 at 10:53pm
Very quick results, thanks. I notice that the dots whizzing round the longer races are whizzing widdershins.


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 6:32am
I had to look "widdershins" up, certainly going the wrong way and unlucky for some.



Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 9:00am
I’ve got 5 litres of unleaded


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 11:15am
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

I’ve got 5 litres of unleaded


Are you boasting, confessing or complaining?



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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: yostumpy
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 7:09pm
Originally posted by legs_larry legs_larry wrote:

Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

I’ve got 5 litres of unleaded


Are you boasting, confessing or complaining?


Or selling?


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 7:25pm
Ha! I managed to swindle some unleaded this morning from the closed petrol station (next to the track) for the generator, I was just letting the organisers know!
All the service stations up to about Birmingham were showing ‘no fuel’ on the way back. It appears to be slightly better in the north…

edit: Nope, Ms B has just gone over to Preston to pick the loony dog up from the equally loony parents and there's no petrol in the North either...


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 8:47pm
The results of today's (Sunday's) races at Gravesend are now posted on the BHPC website:
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/11gravesend" rel="nofollow - www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/11gravesend
I'd like to say a big thanks to the two generous generator donors, Colin Rose and Dave Griffiths, without whose help we would have been back in the dark ages of tally sheets and egg-timers. Also to all those, including Russell, who turned up with various containers of contraband fuel. I suspect BHPC are entirely responsible for the 'shortage' in the south-east.


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 9:29pm
Don't forget to pay the Dartford tolls for anyone that headed back via that route
Russ


Posted By: Kim
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 9:43pm
My unscientific survey of the petril stations of Middle Earth (while on two-hour release from nursing duties) showed 4/5 had closed the pumps, and the remaining one had a massive queueueue of idling motorists.

Glad the weekend has gone well in my absence.  I suppose the next winter lockdown project is a human-powered timing system...


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 26 September 2021 at 10:46pm
Video of Sunday's slow and fast race:  https://youtu.be/5mfM6MW3H4U" rel="nofollow - https://youtu.be/5mfM6MW3H4U


Posted By: yostumpy
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 7:34am
speaking of timing systems, why do we use stopwatch for TT, not timing gear.? Or do both get used? Not that I’ll ever be anything other than   S.   L.   O.   W
Great weekend btw, thanks all. 



Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 7:55am
We did use the timing system for the TT but we also timed it manually as a backup.

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Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 9:28am
Originally posted by yostumpy yostumpy wrote:

speaking of timing systems, why do we use stopwatch for TT, not timing gear.?
We actually use the timing software but not the timing tags. Starts and stops are recorded by mouse click rather than by reading tags. The problem with tags in time-trials is spurious tag reads from riders in the queue waiting to start. There is a Time Trial Mode which avoids this but it requires riders to be in a known sequence and strict send-off times. We tried it at Preston - it worked but the rigidity didn't feel very 'BHPC' and isn't any simpler than manual entry.

As Alan says, the stopwatches are there as a backup. Yesterday we actually needed them for the first three riders because I forgot to press the Big Green Start Button in time. Embarrassed


Posted By: Kim
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 11:00am
The real advantage of CrossMgr's Time Trial Mode is that it doesn't require humans to pay attention to who's out on the course and read people's race numbers.  This becomes more important if there are a lot of riders (a large event, or if the time trial consists of more than one lap), not a lot of organisers, or if the nature of the track means there isn't very much time between spotting a rider approaching and them crossing the line.

However, the cat-herding requirement for everyone to stick to a programmed start order seems to cancel out a lot of these advantages.

There is a mode where it can start timing based on tag reads, but as Andrew says, that would mean a tag exclusion zone around the timing system for the duration of the event.  Plausible at some tracks, impossible at others.

The ideal solution would be if the system could start people by manual button press and record their finish with the tags, but the software developers are from proper cycling clubs who consider pre-published start times to be normal and ordinary, so don't seem interested in adding that feature.  Alas, my Python skills are non-existent (and I've been a little busy with developing other aspects of our timing system).

It's always prudent to use stopwatches as a backup.  People press the wrong button, generators splutter to a halt, cables get tripped over, software that has previously behaved impeccably decides to crash at awkward moments, etc...


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 10:06pm
Do any of the people who were lurking ghoulishly around the tight corners at the bottom of the hill in the fast 60-min race on Sunday have any pictures they would like to share, maybe on Facebook or Flickr, or even here if you can master uploading photos?

I'd particularly like to see how close Slash was to grounding the fairing on the Beano on the last bend before the uphill. It looked like just a inch or two from the couple of times I tailed him round but, to be fair, I was concentrating on getting round myself rather than on Slash's lean angle.


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 10:10pm
Have a look at the pictures I posted of Liam to Facebook on Saturday… I’ll email a couple in a bit.

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Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 10:21pm
2 x stills taken from my video (see link in earlier post), photoshop'd together and then angles measured in CAD:

Slash at 55° from horizontal
Andrew at 53.6° from horizontal




Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 10:31pm
Great picture Russ!!
The white line was left by the Milan on Saturday when it had a mishap going the other way round.


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Posted By: flyinerin
Date Posted: 27 September 2021 at 11:31pm
I have some good lean angle pictures. I shall endeavour to get them uploaded tomorrow.


Posted By: flyinerin
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 9:10am
http://www.dropbox.com/sh/2dfnuhjqti6bxom/AAAdiPkr2FYfjQ_CE5b0VcCma?dl=0" rel="nofollow - http://www.dropbox.com/sh/2dfnuhjqti6bxom/AAAdiPkr2FYfjQ_CE5b0VcCma?dl=0

If anyone wants a higher resolution image, drop me a line and I will email it over.


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 10:25am
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

Slash at 55° from horizontal
Andrew at 53.6° from horizontal
Excellent pictures, Russ! Of course we really need to see the centre-of-mass vectors to decide... Wink.

How about a King of the Corners competition instead of the usual hillclimb when we next host the Worlds? Two-wheelers to be scored by lean angle, multitracks by wheel lift. Judged by Alan positioned on the run-off point with a theodolite.


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 10:43am
Originally posted by flyinerin flyinerin wrote:

http://www.dropbox.com/sh/2dfnuhjqti6bxom/AAAdiPkr2FYfjQ_CE5b0VcCma?dl=0" rel="nofollow - http://www.dropbox.com/sh/2dfnuhjqti6bxom/AAAdiPkr2FYfjQ_CE5b0VcCma?dl=0

If anyone wants a higher resolution image, drop me a line and I will email it over.
Some great photos there, Aeryn! I think we have to stand back and give this one to Jochen though:


ClapClapClap


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 1:01pm
Yeah OK Jochen wins with 51.5°


I think only Liam may have been pushing the limits of tyre adhesion further, but he'd already visited the shrubbery by the time I started filming...


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 1:32pm
It may be an artefact of the video but Jochen's front wheel looks scarily distorted!


Posted By: farwer
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 1:42pm
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

Yeah OK Jochen wins with 51.5°


I think only Liam may have been pushing the limits of tyre adhesion further, but he'd already visited the shrubbery by the time I started filming...
I tried to keep up with David LOL


Posted By: farwer
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 1:46pm
Originally posted by Andrew S Andrew S wrote:

It may be an artefact of the video but Jochen's front wheel looks scarily distorted!
That's interesting. What do you mean by distorted? I can't really see anything.


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 3:16pm
Pretty sure it's just the shadow from the tyre. It looks OK on the video


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by farwer farwer wrote:

That's interesting. What do you mean by distorted? I can't really see anything.
It looks to me as if the lower part of the wheel is bent to the left (of the bike, not the photo). However since the wheel is rotating this can't be true as it would mean the rim was distorting with every rotation and it would break the spokes in no time.


Posted By: farwer
Date Posted: 28 September 2021 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by Andrew S Andrew S wrote:

Originally posted by farwer farwer wrote:

That's interesting. What do you mean by distorted? I can't really see anything.
It looks to me as if the lower part of the wheel is bent to the left (of the bike, not the photo). However since the wheel is rotating this can't be true as it would mean the rim was distorting with every rotation and it would break the spokes in no time.
Big smile


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 29 September 2021 at 11:04am
The points tables for http://www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/10gravesend/bhpc-gravesend-1-2021.html" rel="nofollow - Gravesend 1 (Saturday) and http://www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/11gravesend/bhpc-gravesend-2-2021.html" rel="nofollow - Gravesend 2 (Sunday) are now available on the BHPC website together with the latest, post-Gravesend

http://www.bhpc.org.uk/Data/Sites/1/media/events/events21/BHPC_2021.html" rel="nofollow -
Also various fixes made to the original timing results, including widdershins bug (thanks Dave!)


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 29 September 2021 at 11:10am
Does anyone have any information about laps or finish time for Steve Pippin in Sunday's 60-min race?

Steve was on a mountain bike instead of the Milan SL he was riding on Saturday and seems not to have taken his timing tags with him, hence I have no results. Any info would be most welcome.


Posted By: Dan Bergonzi
Date Posted: 29 September 2021 at 5:39pm
I overtook Steve towards the end of the race
He would have finished on the same lap as me


Posted By: david.lhostis
Date Posted: 03 October 2021 at 4:12pm
My video of Gravesend event is here:https://youtu.be/KDsFQPugOs0

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http://ccgi.lhostis.plus.com/sport.php" rel="nofollow - http://ccgi.lhostis.plus.com/sport.php Optima baron XLow + M5 Sandwich fairing


Posted By: DavidKK
Date Posted: 08 November 2021 at 8:45am
Sorry for the delay. Here are my photos from Gravesend  https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWXZXFe" rel="nofollow - https://flic.kr/s/aHsmWXZXFe  


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 08 November 2021 at 9:00am
Many thanks David - Fantastic pictures!!

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Posted By: LWaB
Date Posted: 08 November 2021 at 9:35pm
Some great photos, despite including me in some of them. Do I really gurn that much?



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