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Battle Mountain 2019

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URL: http://forum.bhpc.org.uk/forum_posts.asp?TID=6950
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Topic: Battle Mountain 2019
Posted By: russellbridge
Subject: Battle Mountain 2019
Date Posted: 31 August 2019 at 4:08pm
New thread started for Battle Mountain 2019

Links:
Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary:  http://automatic-diary.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow - http://automatic-diary.blogspot.com
Jun's results page will this year appear on the IHPVA site:  http://ihpva.org/whpsc/" rel="nofollow - http://ihpva.org/whpsc/ (I'll update this with a link to the correct page when available)
Mr Zuckerberg's walled garden:  https://www.facebook.com/groups/123929127660938/" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/groups/123929127660938/

Dave is already out there, I fly out with LSBU on Thursday from Heathrow, landing in San Fransisco and then a 10hr drive to Battle Mountain. Much crashing done in practice, hopefully this has got it all out of the way prior to problem-free runs in Nevada...LOL

I'll use this thread to provide ongoing updates. If the internet is OK at the Big Chief Motel I'll try and post some YouTube videos...

Russ



Replies:
Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 02 September 2019 at 8:52am
For anyone who wants to experience the giddy thrill of a run down the Battle Mountain 5 mile course, here's a video which I've been using for turbo training: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAub9Qv18mQ" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAub9Qv18mQ
It's been crudely slowed down and sped up from a video we took last year at a steady 60mph using a Go-Pro strapped to the front of the hire car, unfortunately after the mile marker boards had been removed. There's a 2min pause at the start to get your nerves tingling...Confused
If you view it the YouTube app on your phone, there's a drop down top right with an option to view in Cardboard (or any other VR headset that takes a phone - I got one off ebay for £3) - this splits the screen into left and right eye and gives you a budget VR experience :)
(highlighted yellow in the screenshot below)

View in 'Cardboard'



Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 02 September 2019 at 2:38pm
Thanks for that Russ and good luck - keep it right side up!

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Ian, racing again No 6.


Posted By: blogwat
Date Posted: 02 September 2019 at 5:04pm
Good luck Russ go for it and stay safe.

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when your up to your waist in aligators they forget to tell you you've got to clear the swamp


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 04 September 2019 at 5:17am
Does the underlying SCIENCE of this forum understand tables?  If it does I can whack in a list of runners and riders, but otherwise it'll just look a mess.

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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 04 September 2019 at 11:13am
Don't know to be honest - Might be able to screenshot it and post as a picture?

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Posted By: Kim
Date Posted: 04 September 2019 at 11:53am
[table]
[tr]
[td]a thing[/td]
[td]another thing[/td]
[/tr]
[tr]
[td]not a thing[/td]
[td]nothing[/td]
[/tr]
[/table]


<table>
<tr>
<td>a thing</td>
<td>another thing</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>not a thing</td>
<td>nothing</td>
</tr>
</table>




Doesn't look promising...



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 05 September 2019 at 3:20am
Originally posted by AlanGoodman AlanGoodman wrote:

Don't know to be honest - Might be able to screenshot it and post as a picture?

Only got a piddly little screen on this lapdancer and it's running Open Office, so importing the thing from Excel has broken it.  Bah!


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 05 September 2019 at 9:38am
Cry

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Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 06 September 2019 at 5:56am
OK, let's see iffen this works:

BM 2019 Runners &amp;amp; Riders

Current records in contested classes

Yeah, almost.  Apart from the words Open Office doesn't know.  Anyway, This Unit is arriving tomorrow afternoon local time, wot is eight hours behinds Blighty.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 12:30am
I haz arrived!  Not strayed away from the Super 8 yet but the Wahoo and Toronto tandem are here and so are some big Dutch boxes - HPT Delft/Amsterdam have set up shop in the Civic Center.  Nothing much happening for another 24 hours or so except lifting Heavy Things, a task best suited to Penniless Student Oaves.

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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 7:33am
Much better start than last year on many fronts:
1) We flew into San Fransisco instead of Vegas, we didn't sleep in a casino, I actually got some sleep.
2) The bike was actually where it was meant to be and was picked up all OK, unpacked from the crate and loaded into the 18ft long SUV. unloaded & repacked, repeat a few times until everything fit.
3)Beatiful drive from San Fransisco through wine country and then Eldorado National Forest
and then picnic lunch on Lake Tahoe:

( I can't get that image to rotate sorry)
4) Even got to the Big Chief to do some fettling and meet the Liverpool gang, Annecy, Adam Hari from Sydney and the Sprocket Rocket which looks veeeeeeeeery loooooooooooooooooong. Not sure how there's only space for 5 in there...

Sprocket Rocket. This is minus the nose and tail.
We'll go and register and have a snoop around the rest of the teams in the Civic Centre tomorrow...


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 8:04am
Best of luck chaps!

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Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 11:31am
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

Much better start than last year on many fronts:
...
2) The bike was actually where it was meant to be and was picked up all OK,
ClapClapClap
Result!

Best of luck Russ - we're all watching (no pressure there then).


Posted By: Andrew S
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 11:40am
Originally posted by legs_larry legs_larry wrote:

Does the underlying SCIENCE of this forum understand tables?
For posting race results I just copy cells from Excel (^C) and paste in the compose window (^V), which gives an editable table:

Round 1 Race 2






Pos Name Nr Bike Name Class Laps Time MPH
1 Steve Slade 1 Beano O 39 46:46.75 31
2 Antonin Delpeuch 64 Quest O/Mf 33 48:25.40 25.4
3 David L'Hostis 18 Z High Racer O/P/U 32 47:52.34 24.9
4 Kim Wall 136 Red Baron O/P/U/L/Lp/St/S 29 48:05.81 22.4

However that is real corporate, capitalist, cash-to-Gates Excel.


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 5:41pm
BN: I am at the Battle Mountain Super 8 where the internets will shortly be clogged up with a hundred or more Young People doing Social Media.

GN: My room is at the right end of the building for the free wifi of the Scottish Restaurant next door to be within range.

Currently hiding under the bed until the heavy lifting crew have gone out to the course to wrestle with straw bales, board up the armco on the bridge and reassemble all the signs dismantled with infinite care by Battle Mountain Mike last year.  Then I can go to the Civic Center and point a camera at Things.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 07 September 2019 at 9:45pm
Kim
For some reason the HTML lt and gt symbols are being escaped by the compose window which is why your demo table does not display.
 
Not sure why the table that Andrew then pastes in does not get escaped as it is basically the same HTML table format.
 
This should break <br> now and it does not because lt and gt get escaped so they do not appear as HTML chars
 
 


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 08 September 2019 at 6:32am
Latest from the front line: almost everyone is here except Mike Mowett and the Amminger tribe.  Liverpool are only fielding two riders, viz. Ken and Yasmin.  The Japanese entry failed tech inspection because they did not have redundant video systems, but have cut a small hole in the shell and installed one of Hans van Vugt's spare windscreens.  Almost full complement of riders and machines expected in qualifying tomorrow am with Andrew Sourk needing time out for minor repairs and recovery from the 36 hour drive from Michigan and Guillaume (Annecy) and Noah (London South Bank) choosing not to ride because Reasons.

That's if we run at all.  At the moment (22:30 local time) it's chucking down and doing the old thunder and lightning business Angry


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: RoyMacdonald
Date Posted: 08 September 2019 at 8:21pm
Originally posted by legs_larry legs_larry wrote:



GN: My room is at the right end of the building for the free wifi of the Scottish Restaurant next door to be within range.


Hi Dave 

What constitutes a Scottish Restaurant in Nevada? I'm intrigued.

Always enjoy your Battle Mountain reportsThumbs Up

All the best.
Roy


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 08 September 2019 at 9:43pm
Saturday:
Mooch around the Civic Centre in the morning taking photos of lots of very very nice looking bikes, all the result of thousands of hours on input from mostly student based outfits. Delft still leading the way (24 PSO's working on their bikes full time for a whole student year, each year starting from scratch), with Team Policumbent (Turin Uni) close behind with two bikes this year.  Sprocket Rocket is sharing the Big Chief with us and is a hugely impressive piece of engineering with 5 ex US-pro cyclists with thighs like tree trunks. Rear wheels are three Ultremo tyres side by side, fronts are 2 side by side.
Sprocket Rocket
Hans and Ellen's very, very well sorted machine. Many ceramic bearings resulting a near friction-free rear-drive configuration.
Delft
Adam Hari (Sydney)
Grrrrr can't fix upside down photos sorry, lots more to upload, but that'd do everyones's nut.

Out to Poo Lane (road leading to sewerage works) in the afternoon for more testing with the lid off and on, then evening meeting at the Civic Centre, before back to the Big Chief for full bike strip down to fix a front tyre rub issue. My heel is also catching on some protruding bolts but we need to wait for the hardware store to open tomorrow before we can get countersunk M3's (and full bike strip down again...). Thunder and lightening, very heavy rain from 10pm until 1am really taking the piss of our efforts to do all bike engineering outside in the parking lot of the Big Chief under a lean-to canopy with convenient rain holes.  Liverpool up all night filing, sanding, grinding bits off their trike until thier two big riders fit.

We're booked in for Heat 1 on the 2.5mile course in the morning.

Sleep better than last year but not perfect. Getting nervous now to run a machine that we've only done 30mph in, and has crashed lots.

ps The Scottish Restaurant is the colloquilism given to the popular fast food establishment frequented by the Obree team when they were here. (McDonalds)


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 08 September 2019 at 10:02pm
Rain stopped by this morning and unseasonably warm at 11 C.  A duff wire on the timing gear delayed the start of proceedings by 20-30 minutes but we managed almost to catch up by the 10:00 Department of Transportation deadline.  A few glitches from riders and machines too: Adam Hari (N-1) and Kazuhiro Takei (Haruka 2019) having start issues sufficient to prevent them from doing a run while Yasmin Tredell & Ken Buckley both had to pull up ARION5 mid-course with a derailed chain.  Toronto disgraced themselves by not appearing at all though they claimed to have tried to phone and tell us.  Jennifer Breet only just got caught at the finish thanks to ace sprinter/catcher Barclay Henry; Ilona Peletier decked Altair 6 approaching catch and seemed pretty shaken up, though the damage is mostly superficial.  

Andrea Gallo in Taurus was almost certainly the fastest, but timing had a hiccup and said 72mph while Andrea's GPS reckoned ~111 km/h.  Best of the rest was Rosa Bas in VeloX 9 at 64.97 mph.  The Sprocket Rocket team seemed slightly disappointed with their 52.13 mph pass, but captain Chris DeMarchi complained of too much inter-rider chat and not enough coordinated pedalling


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 4:42am
The Sunday evening forecast was for Mighty Rushing Winds, limiting the number of starters to eight, over twelve slots.  Eight became six when Annecy scratched, having not fixed the Ilona-inflicted damage in time.  Six then became five, when Denise's backup video screen blanked itself.  Leaving Rosa as the sole rider in heat one with Andrea, Jennifer, Ellen and Vittoria in the second.  All five had legal wind speeds Big smile  Andrea was the first rider this year over 80 mph with 80.80, Rosa a 71, Ellen 68 and 64 for Jennifer and Vittoria, though the latter decked Taurus-X after overrunning the catch crew.  Barclay nearly caught her...

Early night tonight because Huge Lunch.

ETA: My photos in the "BM 2019" albums under  https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_larrington/albums" rel="nofollow - https://www.flickr.com/photos/mr_larrington/albums


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 7:27am
Originally posted by RoyMacdonald RoyMacdonald wrote:

Originally posted by legs_larry legs_larry wrote:



GN: My room is at the right end of the building for the free wifi of the Scottish Restaurant next door to be within range.


What constitutes a Scottish Restaurant in Nevada? I'm intrigued.



Give you a clue - Double golden showers (oops wrong forum) arch, also known outside the USA as the American Embassy, or where oiks spend an evening and audax riders tend to gather to refresh and sleep (until the aircon is turned down (up) to arctic temps).


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Ian, racing again No 6.


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 8:51pm
Dave, who do you think is the best person to ask out here about steering geometry?

We ran the 5 mile course this morning. Crashed 2 miles in at about 45mph, I'm OK, the bike a bit bashed up, but we suspect that there's a fundamental steering geometry problem with the bike that's getting worse with speed.

I've just spoken to Geoff Bird by phone who's been incredibly helpful, but anyone out here would be great too...

Thanks
Russ


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 09 September 2019 at 10:49pm
Hans van Vugt might be a good place to start, also Calvin Moes if you can find him and/or Todd Reichert, and maybe George Leone.  Don't ask Larry Lem, because he brought a bike called "Scimitar" here a few years back which "handled like a shopping cart" and was basically impossible to ride at all Smile  Or ask on the Facebook group for twenty-five conflicting opinions...

Apart from Russ' little adventure, Adam Hari also decked on a qualifying run, the inadequately-taped lid came off and the rider has a few scrapes and bruises.  Tokyo and Cal Poly both failed to launch at all; Jennifer in VeloX 9 was pulled up a mile or so from timing as she was running very slowly with, we think, transmission issues.

Fun and games at catch when Denise Koronek and Ilona Peletier came in side by side; Denise's 67.84 mph is a US Women's record, while Yasmin's 47.34 is thought to be a BRITISH Women's multitrack record and "Wild Bill" Thornton's 59.83 in his Milan SL an unofficial record for a production velomobile.  Andrea fastest again, with 75.47 with Rosa Bas doing 73.73, though the latter not with legal wind.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 3:04am
The issue that we're trying to resolve is that the steering geometry (carried over from Soup Dragon) is as per the pictures below. The front wheel pivots around a cylindrical bearing inside the small rear drive sprocket, resulting (we think) in bump steer - ie bumps in the road get translated into a steering rotation centred around the offset cylindrical bearing, rather than going straight up the steering axis (head tube) in a conventional set-up. The only way to deal with this as the rider is to hold the bars tighter and tighter as the speed increases, then compounded by the fact that you're then holding the bars too tight to relax into sidewinds.
We've spoken to other riders and they are all saying that their bikes are fingertip-light grip on the bars at 60-70mph, where as ours is death-grip at 40+ (resulting in crash...). We're brainstorming to try to resolve as best we can...






I think that the team are posting updates on Aim93 facebook and Instagram, but I don't do either of dem tings



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 6:06am
Monday evening.  Too windy in the first heat, but all runs legal in heats 2 and 3.  Vittoria Spada blew a tyre in Taurus-X with a mile to go and went off into the dirt, but no damage to the rider and the bike is probably just a bit scraped up.  Bangin' 69.98 mph from Denise Koronek to up her national record again.  Faster than designer/builder Larry Lem has ever made that bike go ;D

Oh, and Rosa Bas broke Barbara Buatois' 2010 world record with a 75.88 mph,run.  And it's only Monday.  There sounds to be a certain amount of partying going on by the motel pool at the moment :thumbsup:

My Sinister Agents tell me that, as long as he can fit inside it, Todd Reichert may have a go in Peter Borenstadt's DF velomobile some time soon, just to try to be the first production vm over 60.

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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 10:55am
Is this bump steer or bump tilt? Bump steer would be the front of the wheel moving e.g. left to right. Bump tilt would be the top of the wheel moving e.g. left to right.
 
To check for either can you stick a laser pointer onto the wheels and with the steer column clamped then apply a static weight onto the front of the bike (not the fairing). Then see if the laser dot on a wall moves with the weight applied and then removed.
 


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 12:12pm
The below post is from Brucey (not me) who can not post to the forum because of password issues:
 
My understanding is that the front wheel has hub-centre steering but
that the chain drive sprocket to the wheel is not in the same plane as
the steering pivot, AND the chain tension run driving said sprocket
is not parallel to the steering axis.

 It may be possible to rectify the problem but not without a
fair bit of engineering.  Essentially if the problem is as I suspect
then  what is required is an additional idler sprocket in the tension
run of the chain, positioned above the sprocket  such that the tension
run in the chain is then exactly parallel to the steering axis as it
drives the wheel sprocket. Probably some thought will also have to be
given to the amount of chain wrap around the sprocket (which will be
reduced), which may require that the tensioner is repositioned too.


FWIW the steering issues may be influenced by bumps but it isn't
classical bump steer per se; even when not pedalling, there is a
secondary problem  which means that going over bumps will induce high
chain tensions momentarily  and as configured at present, they will
pull the steering too.

   Give or take a few inertial considerations, the extent of this
'pull' is limited by the tension in the chain, if the tensioner is
spring-loaded.  However if the tensioner is fixed, there is almost no
upper limit to the tension variations as the chain flaps up and down.

Thus if the whole scheme is to work with a fixed tensioner, it would
be necessary for the chain run ixiting the drive sprocket to be
parallel to the steering axis too. With a spring loaded tensioner it
is certainly desirable but it may not be essential.

Apologies if I have got hold of the wrong end of the stick altogether.
Brucey


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 4:21pm
Many thanks Brian and Brucey.
We think it’s bump steer rather than tilt steer ie bumps are inducing left right movement at the front/back of the wheel rather than top bottom. The rose joint in the hub axis is in the centre of the sprocket so we can’t see that any hub movement will shorten or lengthen the chain, so we don’t think that this is a factor, but I bow to people with bigger brains than I. We’ve also consulted lots of big-brains over here and all agree that yep, that’s a big problem and no, there’s no easy solution...
Wer’re currently considering a very radical solution of (Kevin please close your ears) of hacking up the baron (Dtek will be reimbursed!) and using a traditional forks front end and running a long chain to the rear wheel, all of which we think can be made to work in the existing shell. Much head scratching currently going on over huuuuuge waffle breckie - breakfast of champions...


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 5:58pm
I can't edit the last post. Was going to add that the chain tensioner is spring loaded.


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 9:46pm
While the AIM93 gang have been contemplating all that - and rather them than me - some of the rest of us went racing.  Variable wind as usual,  Tokyo failed to launch again, as usual.  Andrew Sourk tried to qualify his repaired trike Triage, but pulled u on the course with a nasty rubbery-burny smell threatening to make him boak.  Toronto ran their tandem Titan (aka DERP) for the first time and did a wind-legal 58.  Yasmin Tredell is getting closer to the Women's multitrack mark with a 52.9, but that was before Ken Buckley ran it in the next heat and blew the rear tyre right at the start of the timing traps.  Rolling ARION5 into the scenery.  Some scrapes on the machine and the camera pod needs nailing back on, Ken undamaged, PSOs hard at work fixing it.

For once Andrea Gallo was not the fastest of the session, that honour falling to Fabien Canal in Altaïr 6 with a wind-legal 80.63 mph and a spiffy new Hat.  Right now the Small People are in from the various skools poking their little jammy fingers into everyone's bikes so I've come back to the Super 8 to upload photos, do some washing and rest my poor achey feets.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: GeoffBird
Date Posted: 10 September 2019 at 11:20pm
Hi Russ, following our conversation yesterday, I've found the thread you started about a hub (off) centre steered bike. This is what I wrote (9th Feb 2017):

Hi Russ, your design looks light and simple. I remember Mike Burrows built a faired camera trike in the late 80s using this principle. I think it was called 'Cyclops' and appeared on Tomorrow's World! However, it was only designed for straight lines - I think you will struggle to get more than a few degrees lock with this arrangement but who knows? Maybe try playing with a rear wheel and a chain to get the feel of it?

I can see no steering mechanism in your design. As Brian suggests, Mike's design had the steering axis offset to coincide with the chainline, to remove torque steer, but introduce bump steer! Here is a radical idea that may well be disastrous, so right up your street Russ Wink: Why not have an inclined steering axis (viewed from the front) that passes through the top chainline and also through the tyre contact patch, thereby removing torque-steer and bump-steer? The mechanism would be easy to incorporate into your design, with an upper pivot on the lefthand chainstay and the lower pivot on a swan neck, placing it close to the spokes. It would be neater with a cantilevered wheel axle. What it would do to the handling, I have no idea, but it might work.

By 'torque steer' I mean a steering torque caused by the chain tension.


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Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 12:10am
Thanks Geoff! Sorry I’d forgotten you’d written that, all coming back to me now. :) Yes that’s exactly the problem we’re having...

Just driving back from Elco now with a new bike to hack up and use the forks off to jam into the front of the shell, with a fair wind and some midnight oil we may have a new bike ready for thurs am. We are basically now in a Nevada version of scrapheap challenge....



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 4:36am
I believe the USAnians refer to said TV show as "Junkyard Wars", m'lud.

Anyway, you didn't miss much on Tuesday night.  Wind.  Two runners out of four in heat one.  Josh Gieschen in Cal Poly's bike Ambition ran 63.99 mph; ARION5 ate another rear tyre and flipped Yasmin onto her side.  There was much Scouse Swearing when I left the Civic Center just now.

In heat two everyone scratched.  Wind.

Wind.  Heat three saw Andrea potter down the road at a steady 40 mph until the last kilometre, when he slowed down and did 33 mph dead.  Wind.  Ishtey Amminger, being young and thus lacking in imagination, did 51.29.  Wind.

Wind.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 7:58am
Below is another post from Brucey which I think agrees with the last post from Geoff. My take on Bruceys post is that because of hub offset centre steering the steering axis is offset from the point of contact with the ground. This on a bumpy road can result in the steering being knocked around (bump steer). The solution in the classic car is to incline the front wheels as the picture shows. Evo K owners are only too familiar with this issue because the steering plates appear not to have placed the virtual steering point in the right place - resulting in unstable steering at high speeds. Brucys post:
 
fwiw this picture shows the positive camber on some car wheels

https://n7.alamy.com/zooms/27172191819d44ed95be107f45c7f929/mg-tc-vintage-car-during-the-british-classic-car-meeting-2011-stmoritz-ec9bmx.jpg" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 8:19am
How come Liverpool have blown two rear tyres? This sounds like the rear tyre may be rubbing against the carbon.  In photos their machine looks like a tadpole velomobile trike with chain drive to the rear wheel. This probably flexes the rear wheel when pedalled hard. If the torque is enough the rear wheel can be bent and so rub against the carbon. Just pull the rear wheel both ways to check this.
 
Check the dishing of the rear wheel and get the dremmel out to increase the space around the rear tyre.
 


Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 11:33am
An MG picture should display below



Probably in the MG the scrub radius is not quite reduced to zero but it is pretty close.  Because the tyre is inclined from the vertical, the contact patch is an odd shape ( it will vary with absolute castor angle) and furthermore it will move around (laterally) as the tyre deforms differently. I'd expect these issues to also apply to a bicycle with an inclined wheel which gives nominally zero scrub radius (is this what you have got, in fact?). I'd also expect any flex in the wheel mountings  to cause problems too.

[not 100% relevant to current issues in this thread BTW] FWIW some of the steering problems with the Evo K are less than easy to diagnose, because the steering (kingpin) axis has a virtual not actual position; the lower swivel is a 'double-knuckle' design in which the axis is moving around with steering movement.   If this seems a bit crazy it is usually done  for a reason; that reason being hat the virtual (instantaneous) axis position can be placed where it would be physically impossible to place it otherwise.  

The double-knuckle arrangement at the bottom of a mac strut is particularly advantageous if the tyres/wheels are wide, so I first saw it (and they claimed it was their original idea I think, but I don't know if this is really the case or not) on a 1982 BMW motor car.  However it does require a lot of head scratching to preserve good Ackermann geometry, it is considerably more complicated than a standard Mac strut.

IIRC the main problem with the Evo K steering is bump steer, mainly caused because the height of the steering rods was completely wrong for the rest of the front suspension mountings.  

However I have an idea that when racing, you may not want perfect Ackermann geometry (in a tadpole trike or a four wheeler); most tyres have a 'slip angle' i.e. they don't roll in the exact direction the wheel is pointed, when subjected to a lateral load. The slip angle is liable to be dependant on the tyre construction/pressure and the tyre loading/road surface.   So if you optimise everything, you might (say) have the outer wheel turning slightly more (or less) than Ackermann suggests, and this might result in less net tyre scrubbing. However if optimised, this correction would probably only apply exactly for one tyre type/pressure/road surface.

cheers

Brucey


Posted By: GeoffBird
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 3:53pm
Hope you win the Junkyard War Russ!

Hi Brucey, yes I made the exact same points as you in Laidback Cyclist a couple of years ago. The reason I didn't opt for virtual pivot-point steering on my Vulcan racing trike was precisely because of variations in Ackerman geometry. I know the argument about reverse Ackerman (Colin Chapman originally I believe?) but was told by Chris Parker that correct Ackerman geometry is very important on a tadpole trike.

My trike also has about 7 mm negative scrub radius (offset), because the brakes are not linked, but it may be introducing vagueness into the steering (a common issue on cars), so I would probably go for centre-point steering on the next one (zero scrub radius) as I don't seem to have to use the brakes much when racing - maybe I'm not fast enough!

Your point about camber shifting the contact patch around is extreme on a Formula One car - they have a far smaller scrub radius (positive offset) on the straights than appears as the front wheels run a lot of camber, shifting the contact patch inwards.

Anyway, we're getting a bit off topic. If anybody else is interested in the finer points of steering geometry then maybe we could start a new thread?


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Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 9:37pm
So we've decided to go for it and try to change the internals of the bike in the field. It's a long shot but hopefully it'll give us the opportunity to run down the course with a bike that gets more stable with speed rather than less.  We are trying to change a front drive, hub centre steered (via push rod), rear brake bike into a bike with a conventional front fork and tiller steering, front brake, and rear drive via long chain down the 'hull' of the bike.

Photo below shows current state of play. We presently have most of the right parts, some of which are in the right order. We've also found a local resident with a machine workshop, so there's a few of the team there machining parts, Barney is currently laying up carbon around the new headset...hopefully we'll get it finished and rideable...



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 9:42pm
ARION5 update - seems Yasmin took quite a bang on the head last night and started complaining of classic concussion symptoms some time after arriving back in town.  She was carted off to the hospital for a few hours of tests and observations.  Mr Supervisor Glen Friel told me they weren't going to run tonight, but with the Women's Multitrack world record within reach, it appears that Yas has other ideas.  She may get to run if two someone elses both drop out of the first heat and The Man lets her.

LSBU have a big pile of bike frames and the idlers off the Baron and are hard at work reimagining the bike.  This is probably a metaphor for Brexit.

No major dramas this morning, though Denise and Vittoria both pulled up on the course and toppled over at a walking pace before team members could get to them.  Flat tyre and transmission woes respectively.  Sprocket Rocket ate a chain tensioner out on the course and then blew all four front tyres after a lockup at catch.  The brake discs are off a Mighty Kawasaki sports bike...  They have a plane parked at the local airstrip, though, so Reno and Salt Lake City are both a couple of hours away Big smile

Fabien was fastest again with a wind-legal 79, Rosa did a non-legal 75 and Todd almost 59 in the DF velomobile on his first five mile run for three years.  Adam and Kazuhiro got N-1 and Haruka 2019 down the short course in various states of fairing undress, though they'll need to do it again with the full bodywork if they want to run on the long course.

Time for a nap...


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 11 September 2019 at 10:57pm
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

So we've decided to go for it and try to change the internals of the bike in the field.....

 
you'll be able to answer the age old question of whether many hands make light work, or whether too many chefs spoil the broth....?

All the best of luck with it!

cheers


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 12 September 2019 at 4:39am
So in the end Yasmin didn't ride tonight in the end; instead she and Ken came out to watch.  We didn't have the spiffy grandstand and spectator parking the last time they were here so they parked at catch and headed out across country with the sneks and the river that actually has water in it.  Fortunately we managed to call them back before they got drownded or et.

No wind-legal runs tonight chiz, and although it wasn't as strong as last night it was a lot more gusty.  Even the Mustang got shifted across half a lane at 120 mph on a sweep run.  Toronto's tandem Titan got blown this way, that way and over about half a mile from timing.  "We got out" said stoker Evan Bennewies "and the streamer on the pole was hanging down vertically!"  Natch today was the day that the parents of Captain Calvin Moes showed up to see their boy in action for the first time Big smile

Fabien Canal also got hit by a gust, thought he had a puncture, pulled over, slowed down and allowed the IUT Annecy team to pull off a copybook mid-course catch.  Denise Koronek had another Fairy visitation, this time at lower speed but more sudden.  She couldn't hold it and went off into the scenery near Filippini Ranch road less than a mile into the run.  Of the survivors, Rosa Bas was the fastest at 70.77 mph in spite of a phenomenal recovery at the start when it looked as though she was heading straight off the road.

And we had another dick of a trucker at the roadblock.  This time we had pictures, video and a very interested off-duty Sergeant Aten of the Highway Patrol, who is intending to hold a one-way conversation with the guilty party when he's back in uniform Thumbs Up


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 12 September 2019 at 4:42am
Weds, 8pm

Front assembly (now with forks and cut-down steel headtube bonded into carbon) all manufactured as per photo below - carbon/polyester resin (no epoxy available) is now curing in my room Dead. 260mm tiller stem (not shown in this photo) is also curing (made from a 120mm stem cut in two, extended via a 1" seat tube, and bolted for added security). The forks with disk mount are for 700 rather than the 650c front wheel as this was all that was available in Elco (nearest big town 60miles away).

Drivetrain components to connect big front ring to single 16T sprocket on the rear hub via 4.1m of small pitch chain, various idlers, chain tubes etc are all assembled on the picnic table and are ready to bolt on tomorrow. I'm sure there'll be some issues with routing the chain but we'll have to deal with these as they arise... I just want to try my best to stop it jumping off.  I don't like small pitch chains - they are a very silly idea.

Still lots to do...

FYI the only component carried across from soup dragon now is one single 16T sprocket.


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 12 September 2019 at 6:09pm
Battle Mountain and the Liverpool trike ridden by Ken and Yasmin get a mention in this GCN video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGvH8b6FSz4" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGvH8b6FSz4


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 12 September 2019 at 10:49pm
Further woes for Liverpool this morning.  The team were literally pushing Ken off the start line when a Wossname in the camera electronics went "phut".  With various people deciding not to run, he had an opportunity to go in the next heat but the backup camera's picture was all washed-out and overexposed an' t'ing and Mr Supervisor Steve said "no".  Whatever the issue, it couldn't be fixed in time for Yasmin to run in the final heat.  It has been suggested, semi-srsly, that fitting the offending camera with sunglasses, or at least part of the lens thereof, might alleviate the problem.  Alternatively a hacksaw, some hockey tape and one of Hans van Vugt's spare windscreens.

We ran the full course runs before the qualifiers this morning, meaning the lobby of the Super 8 was again full of grubby PSOs, it was cold out and ARION's issues meant I was surplus to requirements as a chase official until the final heat, when I pulled rank on a n00b named Ricky and went behind Sprocket Rocket.  It dropped a chain at around 60 and had to coast the last mile or so.

For the machines that did run it was mostly uneventful except that Rosa decked VeloX 9 at or near catch after yet another near-75 run.  It is believed that Ilona also did a 74, but the timing system ran out of electricity at a crucial moment so the data is from the bike's GPS.  Fabien broke 80 again before the wind got going.  Altair team boss Guillaume de France qualified the bike at just under 50.  Mike Mowett finally ran the VeloX S with the lid on and did 47 on the short course, have gone down three times at start in the previous heat.  A change of launcher to long-time volunteer Scott Wilson seemed to be the magic ingredient.  Andrew Sourk finally got Triage down the course with both the machine and the rider's knees in working order with 28.7 mph.

Astonishingly, there are people over on the Farcebok group who seem to think that verbally abusing our flagger for doing her job is acceptable, so you are encouraged to join the group and call them Rude Names.  WTF do these people do when they encounter a red traffic light, shoot it?


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 12:23am
There's d1ckheads like, literally, everywhere!  I think I may have spent too much time amongst PSO's this week as my speech patterns have like, literally been affected...

Bike assembly coming together now, not sure we'll make the Fri morning 2.5mile run but will def. make sat morn 2.5 mile runs unless something like, serious falls off when we test on Poo Road...

We've gotta accept that we've missed our slot in the evening runs now unless miracolously we do 61mph in the 2.5mile sat morning qualifier... (60mph is now the low cut off for the more desirable evening run slots)


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 5:29am
The goalposts may have moved for the evening runs, of which more later.  Further emb****rances for the L'poo team.  They fixed the camera issue with some car window tinting film and sent Yasmin on her way this evening, only for the transmission gremlins they thought they'd fixed on Sunday to reappear.  Ken had a standby position for the third heat, but then the team discovered a cut in a tyre, which would have prevented them from running even had a slot become available.  "C'est la vie", shrugged a philosophical Ken as they trudged back to the car.  Big ups to the team for taking down the distance marker signs on the way back to town.

There was a deal of enthusiasm running through the, like, Italian PSOs after this evening's runs, with the figure "134" being mentioned after Andrea's turn.  He looked SFQ from the case car.  But the wind had other dieas and neither Vittoria's 74.55 nor Andrea's 84.52 had a legal one.  Neither did Rosa for her 74.52.  Instead it was the IUT Annecy team who got the favourable weather, with both Altaïr 6 riders setting new marks.  Fabien Canal's 84.99 mph in heat two puts him second on the all-time list behind Todd Reichert and is a new European record.  And Ilona Peletier broek Rosa Bas' mark from earlier this week with 77.10 mph in the evening's final run.

(Sings rousing chorus of La Marseillaise)


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 5:42am
Amazing - huge congratulations to the French team!

We've got the bike assembled with a running drivetrain, steering working OK, Just a few jobs left to do, the major ones are to stiffen up the headset mount, install the starter wheel, and install the starter wheel lever mechanism. All seemed to be going very well until we sat me in it, and discovered that the strut at the rear of the front wheel has accidentally been installed 20mm further rearwards than previous, meaning that my gigantic cranium no longer fits inside the hood. Aero bubble appears to be on the cards... Or we train Noah up very quickly tomorrow...

Current state of play:
(sorry, head rotation required)


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 7:15am
Because Stupidz, the forum will only let you edit posts up to thirty minutes after posting, thereby mitigating against the Dissemination of Essential Information by those of us cursed with glacial hotel internets.  Anyway, Rosa's run tonight WAS legal, but not her best of the week.

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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: AlanGoodman
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 9:49am
Originally posted by legs_larry legs_larry wrote:

Because Stupidz, the forum will only let you edit posts up to thirty minutes after posting, thereby mitigating against the Dissemination of Essential Information by those of us cursed with glacial hotel internets.  Anyway, Rosa's run tonight WAS legal, but not her best of the week.
 

I've just changed it so that you now have a week to edit posts... Use this power carefully or you may upset the whole space time continuum.... 


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Posted By: GeoffBird
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 10:50am
Astonishing effort from you and the team (and other teams!) Russ!! Fingers crossed for you.

And 77 mph for a girl! Watch out boys...


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Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 13 September 2019 at 9:10pm
I think there are a few out-of-joint noses in the Dutch and Italian camps after last night.  My Sinister Agents tell me that:
  • Ilona is 19
  • She used to race cyclocross as a junior and now doesn't
  • She's Fabien's niece, unless she's his cousin
  • She's only been riding any kind of recumbent for a month or so before coming here Clap
  • They had her driving the van again this morning
Colder first thing this morning, and the wind was unkind to almost everyone on the five mile course except, ironically on Friday 13th, Jennifer.  Andrea was the fastest with a 76.96, but he obviously wasn't trying that hard as the team fitted the red nose with the bull on it rather than the faster plain white one.  Neither of Annecy's front-line riders ran this morning, though team boss Guillaume did, and crashed in catch after a 58.5 mph run.  They haven't let him out without the Kevlar crash panels yet.  Rosa failed to launch three times on her first attempt to run and had to try again in the third heat.  Pressure?  Todd got Peter Borenstadt's DF velomobile through the traps at 60.41 mph with a non-legal tailwind.  Much grousing from the Milan lads sitting behind me at the morning debrief.

Among the BRITONS, Russell will attempt to qualify Frankenraptor/Velocitractor/Dinosaur Jr/Bikey McBikeface tomorrow morning as the glue didn't dry in time for today, Ken got to act as test pilot for the latest mods to ARION5's drivetrain and Yasmin's speed would have been enough to break the women's multitrack world record if the wind had cooperated chiz.

The wind dropped for the qualifiers on the short course at the end of the morning proceedings.  Adam Hari's lidless and legal 45.16 mph was enough to promote him to the long course tomorrow morning while the Tokyo team added a bit more bodywork to Haruka 2019 and got down the road at 35.65 after a couple of launch spills.  They've got a tiny amount of ground clearance at the front to the slightest lean grounds the fairing.  Andrew Sourk manages to crash Triage in the 200, climbed out and pushed the rest of the way, but Mr Sir Duke High Admiral Professor Timelord Nogami had already switched off the equipment, so we don't know how slow he actually was chiz.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 2:40am
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh - bike fully assembled for 4pm today (Friday), out to Poo Road for practice, back wheel came loose, went to tighten it and sheared the axle. Much swearing occurs here....

New axle currently being machined, but it's getting very last minute now.

We've also got a problem that a slight reduction in wheel movement (side-side) means that we no longer appear to have the ability to flick the bike up off the third wheel, and traditional BM starts are impossible (well for me) with the huge single speed, all compounded by the fact that the new fork has dropped the wheel down 20mm meaning that the lean angle of the bike is increased.  Moving the pivot for the third wheel down 20mm might help, again currently in progress...

And the chain kept jumping off, due it being a f*cking stupid half-pitch timing chain where the teeth are approx 1/3 the height of a standard narrow/wide chainring so any chain slop means the chain happily leaps off the front chainring at any given opportunity.

Build photos here, again sorry for the inability to rotate them:






Much kudos to Barney Townsend (LSBU course leader) for epic amounts of expert bike rebuilding, machining, carbon and fibreglass lay up, keeping the students motivated, etc etc.  LSBU should be incredibly proud.

Barney and I are both properly pissed off/frustrated at the mo, as you can imagine.



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 4:54am
Friday night executive summary in descending order of Rubbishness;
  • Rosa Bas: two launch fails in VeloX 9, chain came off on the second, no run
  • Ken Buckley: smuggled into the final heat at the insistence of Sergeant Aten of the Highway Patrol.  ARION5's transmission went "SPANG" after a few hundred yards
  • Personal best for Josh Gieschen in Caly Poly's Ambition, 66.25 mph, illegal wind
  • World Record pace for Ishtey Amminger in VeloX S at 66.67 mph, illegal wind
  • Jennifer Breet: 71.26 mph with the wind speed at the highest possible legal reading
  • Denise Koronek: fell twice at the start, wot is unusual, personal best of 70.60 mph
  • Ellen van Vugt: new personal best of 72.04 mph.  New bike promised for 2020.
  • Fabien Canal: only running on one carburettor due to a nosebleed; only did 83.80 tonight
  • Andrea Gallo: now third fastest ever behind Todd & Fabien with 84.81 mph
  • Vittoria Spada: second fastest woman evvah with 76.98 mph
  • Yasmin Tredell: world record for women's multitrack, 56.42 mph.  Also an outright BRITISH multitrack record, beating the mark set by Russ last year in Greg Cantori's Milan
  • Calvin Moes/Evan Bennewies: multi-rider world record, 74.73 mph
  • Ilona Peltier: women's world record for the second night running, 78.61 mph.  "She can do 80 for sure" says Guillaume de France, grinning comme un fou
This is why we mentally-unstable volunteers keep coming back.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 9:24am
Russ
 
You could machine a plastic chain keep and mount this on the top of the chainring to stop the chain coming off. Alternatively a chain tube will do the same thing when mounted before and on top of the chainring.
 


Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 12:18pm
re chain problems; a problem with the tension side of  long chain runs is that 

a) they sag when there is no tension and
b) they go almost straight when under tension and

when pedalling, the transition between the two is abrupt.  Stopping a chain flapping around badly between two saggy states is not that difficult, but when the chain is nearly straight it is much, much more difficult via tensioners etc alone.  As Brian suggests some kind of guide is probably called for.

One problem with the small pitch chain is that (unlike bicycle derailleur chain) the side plates are not usually cambered in any useful way, which makes keeping the chain on the sprockets more difficult too. 

  FWIW I have discovered that some 1/8" chains are built using  cambered side plates etc which were originally destined for derailleur chains. The cambered plates plus the additional clearance seem to mean that on a conventional bicycle, using 3/32" sprockets, relatively absurd amounts of chain slack are usually tolerated. You can make the chain come off, but it is surprisingly difficult to do accidentally, when riding the bike.

cheers


Posted By: GeoffBird
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 6:09pm
Chin up Russ. A great consolation I have found from, ahem, my own experience is that you learn so much more when things go badly than when they go perfectly. Hope this isn't too pollyannaish!

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Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 10:21pm
Well, we bloody well did it!

Rear axle re-machined last night, hole cut in hood, chain slightly re-aligned, 3rd wheel dropped 20mm, then out to Poo Road this morning at 6am for practice. A few failed starts, then rear wheel rub/mis-align sorted, and we did a few successful trial runs with and without the hood, and it all started coming together.

Off to the course (15 miles out of town) to just make the last possible qualifying slot at 10:20am. We ran the 2.5mile course, going through the traps in all new Veloci-scrap-tor at 44.3mph.  It felt better, but still bloody terrifying!  I even got a big congratulatory daddy bear hug from Dave Larrington at timing! Big smile

The French team have been unbelievably generous and have persuaded Timelord Jun to move things around so we can run the 5mile course tonight. Big-up massive respect to French team boss Guillaume.

'Tis getting a bit windy now but hopefully will die down for the runs this evening.

ps Hope the Japanese rider is OK, he fainted mid-course and crashed (understandably) and got collected by the ambulance. He was still out when we all left for town, but the Japanese team have reported that he's now concious again.



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 14 September 2019 at 10:28pm
After last night's excitement this morning was a bit meh, albeit that Russ may not agree.  Wind much the same as yesterday morning's, and the sensible Italians didn't bother to run.  Mike Mowett finally cracked 60 mph; Adam Hari did two runs and got his 55 mph Hat on the second.  Rosa fastest at 74.37, with Ilona second with a non-legal 72.66 and Guillaume a cracking and legal 72.16.  Bill cranked the Milan velomobile up to 60.87 without wind assistance.  Josh got crash of the week after locking up Ambition under braking, rolling a Several of times and finishing only just off the road and upright in the hands of the Cal Poly Oaves.  Denise Koronek got it all on Farcebok Live.

On the short course the rebuilt Velociraptor did 44.38 with Russell at the controls; Kazuhiro did 34.75 before crashing and ending up briefly unconscious.  We think from a faint rather than banging his head, but there were a few anxious moments while the paramedics gave him the once-over.  Guillaume graciously offered his slot this evening to Russ as a tribute to the amazing amount of work the LSBU Oaves have put in this week, though said Oaves claim to have thoroughly enjoyed it and have taken the piss out of the French for getting bored after polishing their bike a bit and pumping up the tyres.

Group photos and handcuffing of various speeding miscreants - Evan, Calvin, Yasmin, Ilona, Fabien and Denise.  The latter since The Sarge decided her exploits at Bonneville last year were a Federal offence.  One more session to go; hoping the wind does the same as it did last night...

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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 15 September 2019 at 7:45am
Saturday pm a bit of a let-down as it was, to use the technical term, Bastard Windy.  Only Yasmin, in the very last run of the event, got a legal one, with 55.66 mph.  She then blew through catch with scarcely diminished velocity.  It was mooted that this was so she could be first in the queue at the bar at the awards bash.  Vittoria was the fastest of the night with a 71.

Awards bash was long and noisy and made me want to tear the rainbow unicorn horn off Bas de Meijer's hat and jam it up his arris for getting it in the way of everyone else's photos.  Bah.

The Young People are off partying.  I am having a nice cup of tea and a lie down.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 15 September 2019 at 9:27am
Well done Russ and the LSBU team. Also well done to Yasmin and the Liverpool team.
 
Please make sure to invite Ken and Yasmin to our BHPC events. We would love to see them at one of our races.
 
Does BM count towards any BHPC awards: Homebuilding, Unfortunate Scotsman etc?
 


Posted By: GeoffBird
Date Posted: 15 September 2019 at 4:47pm
Amazing effort Russ and the team! Why did it take so long to build the first one! Tongue

Ken and Yasmin both came to Darley Moor one year - they were both VERY fast, and Ken has raced at Hillingdon.


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Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 4:56am
Nosey at the re-jigged bike before we packed it up:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1lnd9ryAQw" rel="nofollow - Velociscraptor


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 6:30am
Recent Farcebok post from Ken said that he's officially retired from racing streamliners, while I suspect Yasmin may be busy concentrating on her other sport up to the end of July next year.

Not much else to report except that a public-spirited person - I think a member of the IUT Annecy team - found a cheque for three hundred of your Earth dollars in the street.  Now, for ease of non-USAnians turning them into actual cash money, there is no payee name on the said cheques but they can be traded for greenbacks at the cashier's office in the casino section of the Wol Club in town.  However, to allow the organisators to keep track of them, they have the winner's class and position written in large friendly letters on the back.  So it was not difficult to determine who it belonged to.  Suffice it to say that it was one of the Liverpool riders and her name isn't "Ken" oops what a giveaway.  Liverpool have form for this sort of thing, up to and including losing actual team members.  Drink may be involved.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: Yanto
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 6:49am
Originally posted by russellbridge russellbridge wrote:

Nosey at the re-jigged bike before we packed it up:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=l1lnd9ryAQw" rel="nofollow - Velociscraptor

Thanks for the "look see" Russ, rather you than me, you're bonkers riding that thing, any rider riding a streamliner is bonkers! Shame things didn't work out, but why the fundamental problems with handling weren't experienced and rectified in the UK prior to going?


-------------
Ian, racing again No 6.


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 7:05am
The main problem (as well as naively carrying over largely untested geometry from the old bike) is lack of suitable test venue in the UK - to get a BM machine up to speed needs three miles, preferrably downhill, dead straight road/runway/other, with smooth tarmac, no traffic, no rain etc etc.  The best we could find was Elvington nr York (5hr drive for London lot), which really wasn't suitable. The bike felt OK up to 35mph in the UK, but that wasn't fast enough to demonstrate the handling problems.

Anyway, enough of those problems, we've got real problems here in our overnight stop in Lake Tahoe - we just left our rooms to go down to dinner and there's a bloody big BEAR! in the car park:
We've informed reception who've told us that animal welfare don't work weekends, so the Police have been called.  We left via the other door and are off to find bloody big steaks...


Posted By: atlas_shrugged
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 8:52am
Russell - completely agree about the lack of test tracks in the UK for BM type tests.
 
IMHO the solution is to build Greenways. We have enough old rail tracks in the UK to do this. Sections of these greenways could be segregated between cyclists and walkers such that a premium section could be cordoned off for: TT, autonomous ULV testing, BM testing or such like. Recreational cyclists could be diverted onto shared footpaths while these tests are taking place. 
 
This is not a BHPC objective but I have been personally chipping away at this for the past 2 years. I get to take the Mayor of Cambridgeshire out for a cycle ride and I get letters back from Jesse Norman saying only fit riders will cycle between Oxford and Cambridge but I am making very little progress which is bleeding frustrating.
 


Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 12:27pm
Q; how do riders from other countries get to test their machines?

Suggestion; is it worth looking into getting part of the MIRA test track resurfaced, so that it is more HPV friendly?

cheers


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 4:17pm
All of the teams I spoke to (Denise, Hans and Ellen, Dutch, Italians etc) all had access to a 2-4mile bowl, and were doing regular tests. I think the only places in the UK are Millbrook and MIRA. Anyone have any contacts there?
Russ


Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 16 September 2019 at 4:51pm
sorry, slip of the brain; the track I was thinking of is Millbrook, not MIRA.  Not sure what the high speed track is like at MIRA; I don't think it is a banked track like at Millbrook.

cheers


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 17 September 2019 at 7:56am
Scrutiny of Google maps shows some kind of circuit here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunton_Technical_Centre" rel="nofollow - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunton_Technical_Centre .  I think there might be something at the Jaguar Land-Rover facility at Gaydon, Warkwickshire, but I ate'nt sure.  Perchance Geoff or Twed might know?

Edit:  the banked high-speed track at MIRA has been used for at least one HPV hour attempt in the the dim and distant.  The motorised types have lapped it at speeds in excess of 160 mph.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: speedy381
Date Posted: 18 September 2019 at 6:25pm
I've just caught up with Mr Larringtons scribblings and would like to thank Dave for all his words. I think you are getting even better at ritting and I enjoyed every entry. Great stuff. Russ, your patience must be tested. Well done to all.

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The Silver Bream Racer


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 18 September 2019 at 8:06pm
To be fair I really enjoyed the week. Yes it was frustrating not to run at the speed the bike was capable of, but we did a good job to turn the bike round in four days and get it ride-able by Saturday - the windy run on Saturday (when all other teams scratched or crashed) was testament that we were going in the right direction with the re-design.  We were up to 47mph on this run but I got a bit flustered due to wind/terror/wobbly-screens/other-excuses and braked at the wrong flags (start of traps vs end of traps - der) so the official speed was 42mph - for reference Andrea (Italian male rider) only went through at 48mph in the slightly less windy following session. The 8 uni students who came with us got far far more out of the week that if we'd have bought a fully working bike, and they all seemed thoroughly happy/exhausted/tested/exhilarated by Sunday...

The only time my patience was really tested was during the hour long tat give-away in the Saturday night dinner - you don't get that at the Olympics! I was bored so I drew a sketch of Dave looking bored - I suspect he was writing something about a unicorn horn...


Agreed re the automatic musings, very enjoyable LOL


Posted By: Brucey
Date Posted: 19 September 2019 at 9:29am
https://www.horiba-mira.com/smart-city/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2018/11/0_Circuit_Overview.png" rel="nofollow - https://www.horiba-mira.com/smart-city/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2018/11/0_Circuit_Overview.png

shows the MIRA facility.  Are the corners on the high speed track banked, in an HPV friendly way, I wonder?   This photo shows the facility but it isn't clear if the high speed track is banked or not

http://medias.photodeck.com/78bcb2ba-c5e5-4f2c-9758-2dc68e9709ee/MIRA-test-track-fb32119_uxga.jpg" rel="nofollow - http://medias.photodeck.com/78bcb2ba-c5e5-4f2c-9758-2dc68e9709ee/MIRA-test-track-fb32119_uxga.jpg

cheers

 


Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 21 September 2019 at 1:54am
Yes, it is banked - I've seen pictures. The motoring comics used to use it for testing before Millbrook was built, though they tended to go to Germany to max anything faster than 150 mph. IIRC Jaguar test driver Norman Dewis still holds the lap record at ~161 mph in the XJ13 prototype.

One of the Crane cousins set an hour record there in one of the later iterations of Bluebell. Latterly they became very paranoid about security and feared that visitors would snap pictures of top-SEEKRIT prototypes and flog them to the said motoring comics.


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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds


Posted By: russellbridge
Date Posted: 17 March 2020 at 4:45pm
Youtube video I've put together showing my time at Battle Mountain in September last year.
Apologies it's taken so long - work, life, house building, dog-buying, daughter breaking leg, daughter breaking wrist (yes the same one) etc etc got in the way...
Russ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKR6ouY851w" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKR6ouY851w



Posted By: legs_larry
Date Posted: 18 March 2020 at 1:01pm
Ta, Russ. I shall watch at my leisure. No news about 2020 yet but I fear my usual gallivanting about Leftpondia either side of the event may be curtailed even if the event does go ahead. Bah!

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a bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds



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