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Mounting SA Hubs ?

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stormbird View Drop Down
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    Posted: 29 January 2018 at 12:40pm
Hi all

I knew these had been unused as there were problems with deploying them ?

These look nothing like any of the explode drawings I can find as most drawings show spacers used in the assembly , mine has 3 nuts ?

So now rear drum outer threaded part is to short for the square frame member  [ about 1.25" ] it passes through ?



This is how they came ? so there is a small nut nearest back plate which has a lip on it centering the threaded outer tube then a lock nut ? then it passes through the frame as is held by a clamp nut the same size as the lock nut ? Last nut is holding the 12mm bolt being used as a axle ?

Problem is the clamp nut has only half it's threads engaged as outer threaded tube is not long enough for the size of my square tubing ?

If I remove the nut I called a lock nut and use it on the other side instead [ just leaving the centering nut ] the brake arm cannot be used as it fouls the frame tubing :-



Leaving axle nut bearing down on outer threaded tubing instead of the threaded tubings clamp nut ?

Do I need all three nuts ?
Could I make the gap up with washers visible in picture 2 ? on the hub size of the frame ?

regards Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoffBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2018 at 12:56pm
Normally, on traditional hubs, you have a bearing cone, with flats for one of those thin wrenches, and a lock nut to hold it in place. An M12 half-nut should be about 7 mm deep. That should be all you need the outer side of the steel box. You can space it if necessary with washers. Is it a standard M12 x 1.75 thread?

Edited by GeoffBird - 29 January 2018 at 12:56pm
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stormbird View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stormbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2018 at 1:12pm
Geoff

These have sealed bearings :-







From here :-

http://practicalcycles.com/products/323911--sturmey-archer-x-sd-single-sided-70mm-drum-brake-hub-left-or-right-mount.aspx

Standard 12mm bolt unsure metrics of bolt sorry.

Paul


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoffBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2018 at 3:33pm
Oh, okay, you just need a spacer then (to give clearance for the actuator arm) - no need for the nuts, except the one on the inside of the steel box-section of course. You could also replace the bolt with a longer one - use an Unbrako cap-head though for strength. Another option is a shoulder screw as they have better control of the diameter.

BTW, bolting through a bit of steel box is not good practice unless there is a spacer on the inside - looks like something has been welded into the box section?




Edited by GeoffBird - 29 January 2018 at 3:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stormbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2018 at 4:53pm
Geoff

Looks like this :-


Now this is how they came so small nut up against backplate centring threaded tube [ see other picture ] next nut up tight against it.

Inside frame is as you guessed a anti crush tube shown here above threaded tube.

then we have the outer nut ?

below we have the the 'axle ' bolt 8.8 long enough and I have matching lock nuts.

Disassembled it looks like this :-


 As you can see thinner first nut has lip to fit inside backplate.
 
Originally posted by GeoffBird GeoffBird wrote:

Oh, okay, you just need a spacer then (to give clearance for the actuator arm) - no need for the nuts, except the one on the inside of the steel box-section of course.


I plan to trim off the excess steel above the anti crush tube in the frame that should get me most of the clearance I need for the actuator arm. Looks like perfect position for cable access/actuator arm leaves cable open to dirt/water ingress and best mounting for cable actuator arm fouls frame.

Of course mounted on kingpins for a tadpole trike does not have this problem as there is mainly air around the backplate !

Should the spacer put the inner nut flush with the end of the threaded tube so the locking axle nut is tightened up against it ?


Quote BTW, bolting through a bit of steel box is not good practice unless there is a spacer on the inside - looks like something has been welded into the box section?


Ahead of you there Wink

Wheels/brakes are the only thing left to solve before I tackle the springing.

It looked at one point as though I was going to have to scrap this version and build a new one with different wheel mountings as the discs callipers were proving awkward to mount ?

Then I remembered i had these drum brakes , very suitable me thinks.....

They are  a mish mash of new unused but parts missing from Ebay and a couple of wheel/hubs from our friend at Little Thetford who like Vold***ort shall not be named Big smile

regards Paul


Edited by stormbird - 29 January 2018 at 4:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stormbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2018 at 5:37pm
Hi all

Found out why mine look different to all the drawings on the net of these hubs ....

Mine were originally meant for QR axles and so mount differently to normal SA hub brakes as the back plate has to stay fastened to the vehicle when axle and wheel removed ....

Simple when you know why !

regards Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoffBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 January 2018 at 10:40pm
Looks like a wheelchair mounting; the receptacle bolts to the frame and then the axle is quick release, like a Pip pin, that slides into the receptacle. The axle is retained in the hub with a circlip.

Do you need the 'receptacle' at all? Another option would be to weld the axle bolt to the frame (with a big, thick washer to spread the load) with the retaining nut on the outside, like a stub-axle on a car?
Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stormbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2018 at 7:59am
Geoff

Well no QR parts so that's not happening.

Happy with current 12mm bolt/axle and as I can get a lock nut on that so I suppose that will hold it all together whether the ' receptacle ' is bolted or not.

So add some packing to the ' receptacle ' and trim the frame member down for actuator clearance and jobs a good one ?

regards Paul

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Paul Lowing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2018 at 10:15am
When I used one of these as far as I remember I had some similar problems.  Used a 12mm rod and cut and threaded it to the appropriate length.  I think I welded it to the fork, but it was a while ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stormbird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 January 2018 at 6:37pm
This looks like it will work ?



Two washers replaced the big inner nut and now everything assembles properly [ what ever that is !]

Mock up of cable routing seems to work without fouling anything , needs bracket trimming & welding to frame to hold back plate restraining bolt :-



Need to break out the grinder next and get these cleaned up , also capping the frame ends.
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