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Fairing / Shell for handbike or custom handbike

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Ken View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05 November 2017 at 12:22pm

Hi everyone,

I’m new here so my apologies for being behind on the experience that many of you already appear to have and for missing what might be fairly obvious.

Anyway, I’m wondering what it would take to build a (“bold on”) carbon fibre shell for my handbike or what it might take to build a custom hand/bike shell monocoque

I’m thinking a monocoque would most likely using a stock handbike fork so the remainder of the shell to be built would be the aero portion/ aspect, seat, headtube, and rear axle.

Additionally, I’m wondering if there is someone experienced with carbon fibre work and has the resources to build such an item.

I’m looking for options for a serious consideration on a world record attempt next year.

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

Ken

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AlanGoodman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AlanGoodman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 1:07pm
Jonathan Woolrich has a lot of experience with fast handcycles... I'll point him to this thread.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 2:35pm
I don't think "bolt on" is a good way to go. You want something completely different from a faired machine than you do from a "stock" handcycle. You might want to look at Liverpool University who are working on a handcycle for next year University of Liverpool Velocipede Team - ULVTeam on FB, or talk to Alan Grace who took his Slippery Slug to Battle Mountain. Send me a message and I will give you his email. Building any kind of faired machine is a lot of work! Mike Nelthorpe at HQ Fibre Products, Norfolk can build anything you want. I don't have resources.
Originally posted by Ken Ken wrote:


Hi everyone,

I’m new here so my apologies for being behind on the experience that many of you already appear to have and for missing what might be fairly obvious.

Anyway, I’m wondering what it would take to build a (“bold on”) carbon fibre shell for my handbike or what it might take to build a custom hand/bike shell monocoque

I’m thinking a monocoque would most likely using a stock handbike fork so the remainder of the shell to be built would be the aero portion/ aspect, seat, headtube, and rear axle.

Additionally, I’m wondering if there is someone experienced with carbon fibre work and has the resources to build such an item.

I’m looking for options for a serious consideration on a world record attempt next year.

Thanks for any help you might be able to provide.

Ken

jdub... Got the T-shirt
http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Protobikes/library
http://protobikes.org/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150386999@N02/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoffBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 7:33pm
Creating a hard shell from scratch is a lot of hard work. Only for the very dedicated!

Which isn't to say it can't be done - my account of doing this many years ago (but still holds true) used to be on the BHPC website, but I can't see it now - anybody know where it is?
Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed
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Ken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 November 2017 at 11:16pm
Cheers all,

Thanks for the re-direct Alan.

Aye, a "Bolt-on" isn't ideal, just a consideration in case a full faired frame wasn't possible, or unachievable. 

I've had a look at the Liverpool bike and unless they are doing something with a fairing added onto it, it's really not that much different than a stock handbike, bar the weight, and I think that's the key. Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by their attempt. The only benefit I can see so far is that the riders toes are pointed forward which is probably possible if you're paralysed, but I'm not so my foot position can't be made too aero. 

There was a woman, a year or two ago, who used a faired kneeler with head controlled steering but form the looks of that, it was excessively complicated that probably negated any aerodynamic gains, not that it seems to have much of an aerodynamic shape. But her speed didn't seem to reflect the effot that was likely spend on the bike design.

JDub, I had a look at Slipper Slug. Looks like a reasonable design and partially similar to what I've envisioned. Mind, how difference can you really get with 'tapered, teardrop, aerodynamic, & low'?

GeoffBird, Aye, I thought as much, also why I had considered a "bolt-on" as that could be more simple that a full bike, and with less structural considerations. But, it'd be interesting to see how feasible/ complex it would be, as well as how realistic of a time frame it would be, and what the cost would be. Theoretically it'd be self-funded unless I could get a kickstarter thing happening, and I'd be happy to take on some of the work but I'm guessing I'm pretty far away from any builders up here in Scotland.

But all in all, I feel the need to set a record.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeoffBird Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2017 at 12:14pm
Hi Ken, just found my article. I've had a lot of experience of this sort of thing and this is probably the easiest and cheapest way of getting a good result: http://www.bhpc.org.uk/Constructors/Bird/zen-and-the-art-of-fairing-construction.aspx

IIRC, Alan Grace used a very similar technique. I published an article about Alan's build in the BHPC magazine (LaidBack Cyclist). It was in Issue 119: http://shop.bhpc.org.uk/bhpc-magazine-issue-119


Edited by GeoffBird - 06 November 2017 at 12:34pm
Right Time - Right Place - Wrong Speed
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Ken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2017 at 1:27pm
Cheers, I'll have a look at those
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2017 at 7:02pm
I think the bike Liverpool were testing is Karen's. If not, it is a commercial racing handcycle. I don't think that is a good start for a faired machine. I don't think the weight matters much for record setting. Liz McTernon rode the Plymouth machine with head steering and hated it. She has rather limited muscle use, but I think it is poor anyway. Alan tried working with them but could not get on with them. He's a very easy going guy. It was very uncomfortable and not very aero. In 2016 it did set a record with another rider, but still quite poor.
Alan Grace ordered a 2 wheel handcycle from Kinetics in Scotland. Over a year and no sign of delivery. From past experience, that is how it is with them, so I do not recommend.
The slug was designed by eye. Can probably improve quite a bit with a design with a better gradient.  
Originally posted by Ken Ken wrote:

Cheers all,

Thanks for the re-direct Alan.

Aye, a "Bolt-on" isn't ideal, just a consideration in case a full faired frame wasn't possible, or unachievable. 

I've had a look at the Liverpool bike and unless they are doing something with a fairing added onto it, it's really not that much different than a stock handbike, bar the weight, and I think that's the key. Frankly, I'm a bit baffled by their attempt. The only benefit I can see so far is that the riders toes are pointed forward which is probably possible if you're paralysed, but I'm not so my foot position can't be made too aero. 

There was a woman, a year or two ago, who used a faired kneeler with head controlled steering but form the looks of that, it was excessively complicated that probably negated any aerodynamic gains, not that it seems to have much of an aerodynamic shape. But her speed didn't seem to reflect the effot that was likely spend on the bike design.

JDub, I had a look at Slipper Slug. Looks like a reasonable design and partially similar to what I've envisioned. Mind, how difference can you really get with 'tapered, teardrop, aerodynamic, & low'?

GeoffBird, Aye, I thought as much, also why I had considered a "bolt-on" as that could be more simple that a full bike, and with less structural considerations. But, it'd be interesting to see how feasible/ complex it would be, as well as how realistic of a time frame it would be, and what the cost would be. Theoretically it'd be self-funded unless I could get a kickstarter thing happening, and I'd be happy to take on some of the work but I'm guessing I'm pretty far away from any builders up here in Scotland.

But all in all, I feel the need to set a record.
jdub... Got the T-shirt
http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Protobikes/library
http://protobikes.org/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150386999@N02/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JDub Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 November 2017 at 7:08pm
A correx fairing should be good enough to break current records. Might have to build something to attach it to. Can you ride 2 wheels? If you are in Scotland you are a long way away. I still have the record handcycle, widened to 360mm across the seat. Also the trainer version converted into a leaning 3 wheeler.  
jdub... Got the T-shirt
http://s1127.photobucket.com/user/Protobikes/library
http://protobikes.org/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/150386999@N02/

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Ken View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 November 2017 at 11:32pm
Aye, Karen's bike, I believe, is the F-1 designed bike she had in Rio. It did have a minor design flaw apparently, in that it was fragile enough that the drafting bar broke off which disqualified her on one of the races. And it does seem like the wrong design to attach a fairing onto (to me at least).

I suppose you could argue weight is both a pro and con, with the short run-up  of the handbikes it's be good for acceleration but the added mass giving momentum would also be beneficial once at speed. IT's probably one of the least significant factors on a flat run though (to a point).

I've seen the bike with the head steering and I'm baffled by it. It's excessively complicates and probably pointlessly heavy because of it. It didn't appear to be well shaped for aerodynamics (of course we all know that looks are very deceiving when it comes to aerodynamics though) and though the kneeling position theoretically allows you to put out more power, that's due in part to the ability to use your torso, and if your head is locked into the steering, you've just taken away that advantage.

I've heard rumours about a builder/ supplier in Scotland but had no idea who it was. A year with no delivery doesn't sound good at all.

Do you know when the Slug was designed? Lot's of resources available these days that can make for a more refined build (in so many industries).
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